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Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

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Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#521
post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You install those yourself you know. I'd rather have a choice than not. I feel your pain in the sense that that I think user UX will take a hit, but I think that's less important than breaking the monopoly of the current app store. For example, I can't find apps with pornography or other types of things the high overlords at apple or Google have deemed inappropriate for me to have. That's bad. Apparently apps like Ma…

The problem is the choice is taken away from you though. Just like he said with the game market. If you want to play Game A, you go and download/install Game A's publishing app store. If you want to then play Game B, rinse and repeat. You will be forced to use so many different app stores and won't have a choice to NOT use their app store "IF" it progresses like it has on the desktop. No proof it will/won't either.

>The problem is the choice is taken away from you though

All Apple has to do is compromise on the 30% number. They've taken it to the extreme and demanded 30% of everything, 30% of subscriptions, 30% of every dollar.

It's outrageous and developers who are perfectly capable of either self-hosting or finding a solution for cheaper than 30% OF ALL REVENUE deserve to keep the 25% of that revenue that is pure profit to Apple.

Apple created this situation for themselves and they will have to give up sooner or later.

Steam makes plenty of concessions for the 30% number and now allows basically pass-through games so that a much more wide variety of titles can appear there even if they aren't paying a full tax to the storefront for appearing.

I mean, could you imagine a world where Wal-Mart was the only store your Toyota car was allowed to drive to, and Wal-Mart charged their suppliers 30% of all revenue to appear on the shelves?

What is happening with the App Store monopoly is truly outrageous, it's an unimaginable amount. 30% is why Apple is going to lose here. If they were willing to be reasonable, it wouldn't get to this point.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may have but the rest of the world did so with a lot of hand-wringing and a boatload of viruses, toolbars, malware, and everything else. As someone who has worked in IT and in tech support, I get and agree with what Apple has done.

FYI, the iOS sandboxing model is the innovation behind the security of iOS. It is separate from the notion of having an app store. Apps would be just as restricted from accessing your data and modifying the OS as they are through their own store. So this argument is wrong but will be peddled by Apple for sure. PC operating systems had viruses because of the non-restrictive, unsandboxed access their APIs gave to every…

1. Sandboxing might help prevent certain types of attacks but the App Store review process goes above and beyond simple API restrictions and imposes rules on how you're allowed to use those APIs to prevent abuse of privacy. For example: just because I grant an app access to my contacts/photos for a legitimate purpose doesn't mean I want that company to exfiltrate that data and sell it to a third party. Sandboxing won't help you there.

2. Sandboxing is no panacea as we've seen from multiple Android malware attacks that abuse system vulnerabilities to break out of the sandbox. You're also underestimating the amount of damage that can be done even within the sandbox:

- The CryCryptor ransomware abuses file access APIs to encrypt photos and videos on external storage and hold them hostage. (https://threatpost.com/emerging-ransomware-photos-videos-and...)

- The DEFENSOR ID banking trojan abuses accessibility APIs to steal login credentials, text messages, and 2FA codes. (https://www.welivesecurity.com/2020/05/22/insidious-android-...)

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My gaming computer is already filled with like 8 different app stores each completely different then the other and a variety of privacy/security issues on each. Do you honestly think this is a worse scenario than having to buy all of your apps/games through Microsoft's app store? Can you imagine using macOS without homebrew because everything has to come from Apple's app store? Can you imagine using Ubuntu without…

Absolutely yes. As a user, I really wish Microsoft required the use of their store. Having a single place to go is a lot easier

What you want is Windows 10 S mode.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/s-mode

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#525
post #464
post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can hardly wait to use Amazon App Store to install Amazon and then open up the Epic Game Store to install random game and then open up EA Game Store to install random game and then open up Facebook App Store to install Facebook and then open up the Apple App Store to install the Blizzard App Store to install Hearthstone and then go back to the Apple App Store and update the Blizzard App Store so I can get the lat…

> This is how life is as a PC gamer and it's.... actually good. Who cares if you need to open multiple stores? I do. I hate it with passion. Launchers have to be updated, games have to be updated; they all have different UX, work better or worse than the other. Let me have just Steam and regulate Valve so that they don't abuse their position, and I'll be fine thank you.

Imagine hating something so trivial that provides real tangible benefits so much.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#526

I can hardly wait to use Amazon App Store to install Amazon and then open up the Epic Game Store to install random game and then open up EA Game Store to install random game and then open up Facebook App Store to install Facebook and then open up the Apple App Store to install the Blizzard App Store to install Hearthstone and then go back to the Apple App Store and update the Blizzard App Store so I can get the lates…

It’s almost like console gaming would be easier, where if you want to buy a digital game, there is only one marketplace to use [1].

Oh wait.

[1] yes, you can also buy physical games for most systems, but that’s in its way out too. If this plays out as expected, this complaint is going to have a lot of collateral damage.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#527

Let's start with the obvious issue: Apple does not sell the most phones. It does not have the most phones on offer. It is not a majority, let alone a monopoly. Now the less obvious issue: I like what apple does and I am prepared to pay for it. I agree with those arguing for consumer choice, but I come to the exact opposite conclusion, and find those others hypocritical. I want an option to have a locked down environm…

Antitrust regulation isn't just about monopolies, it is about the cost to entry and the harm to consumers

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#528
post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of those sounds like a very bad user experience. A very bad experience is games disppearing different games appearing after purchasing something else, games not working, memory usage too high..etc No user reviews, no easy help button for noobs, no cloud save, only recently got achievements, can't crush a friends party. all sound like little nice to haves that don't add much value. Does it allow me to find/play t…

Then, no offense, but you might not understand the market very well. Achievements and friends are table stakes these days. Games are primarily a multiplayer experience with friends so platforms absolutely need those things before locking games as exclusives. This would be like shipping an OS without internet access to end-users.

I actually think it is you who doesn’t understand the market.

Nobody cares about centralised achievements any more, and most people don’t particularly like having different friends lists for each service.

People would rather organise a game through something like Discord that is entirely seperate to the store ecosystem.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple isn’t users friend, or defender of the people. It’s biggest company in the word, that tries to make most amount of money by monopolizing markets. And privacy sells nowadays, so they exploit that to grow even more. Of course users get something in return, but that’s not the reason why do that. It’s one of the greatest PR campaigns of modern world, to have people believe that biggest company in the world cares ab…

This is a pointless statement, does Epic have consumers back? LOL hardly. This lawsuit is about Epic cashing in on Apple's work. No one believes Apple the corp is the defender of the people. Apple is great on privacy compared to all the other options, not because they are good people (they may not be or they may be who knows?) but because it's in their best interest to be. This is about two corp's fighting over their…

It doesn't matter what Epic's intentions are. Allowing creation of 3rd party stores is great and consumers and developers. I'll continue to support the organization whose incentives are aligned with mine.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#530

I can hardly wait to use Amazon App Store to install Amazon and then open up the Epic Game Store to install random game and then open up EA Game Store to install random game and then open up Facebook App Store to install Facebook and then open up the Apple App Store to install the Blizzard App Store to install Hearthstone and then go back to the Apple App Store and update the Blizzard App Store so I can get the lates…

It's just natural that big game companies want to start their own gamestore, it's easy money without having to come up with original ideas again and again. And you can take a big cut of the profits of the ones that makes the actual work.

But we can vote with our wallet, it's a free market. I only buy things on GOG.

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