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Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

theguardian.com

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Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#521

Post by DrBazza »

The first picture in that article is just one of the problems. On street parking and running cables across a public pavement. Many UK houses don't have off-street parking, particularly in cities. Like a thousand other comments, on here, until the infrastructure is solved, it's nowhere close to the tipping point for electric vehicles.

The other problem is range vs time to charge. Members of my family frequently drive hundreds of miles a day from one end of the country to the other. There isn't an electric car that can match a diesel (or petrol) car's range. And then charging time adds an hour to a long journey. No one wants a 5 hour journey to become a 6 hour journey. If time isn't an issue, and we want to be 'green', why don't we just return to a horse and cart?

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#522

Post by TheSmiddy »

bartvk wrote: post #434
TheSmiddy wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in China where everybody rides ebikes and my building has a free for all parking space where 2/3rds of the parks have no chargers and the spots with charge ports all have qr codes you scan and pay with wechat to turn the port on. This is an easy problem to solve.

Just curious, what's the kWh price for this? Here in The Netherlands, we get charged about 0.33 euro per kWh (= 0.40 US$), and that's for overnight charging of cars, where you typically draw no more than 11 kW.

I pay ¥2 for 6 hours at 400w (2400w total) which is ¥0.83/kwh or US$0.128.

My household electricity is about 30% cheaper so it's a pretty good deal.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#523

Post by athms »

ryandrake wrote: post #388
athms wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There will be gas stations for generations to come. If California can meet its sales ban for new ICE cars in 2035, which is a tall order, ICE cars will still be on the road. Contributing to this trend will be people keeping their cars for years; used cars which represent two thirds of car sales; and cars driven into California from other states. As an example, I have a 2007 Honda and it will be on the road until it f…

California successfully forced me to sell my 80’s sports car out of state by constantly tightening smog requirements to the point where they were far above what the car ever had to meet and banning non-CARB stamped aftermarket parts. I have no doubt that they would be able to squeeze perfectly working ICE cars out of the state with draconian rules.

There are two emission standards for California, state and federal. If the car was sold in a state that follows federal and it meets the emission standard for the model year, it can be registered in California. The state doesn't change smog requirements; older cars remain at their original specification.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#524

Post by athms »

theshrike79 wrote: post #498
athms wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you thinks everybody lives in a single family home with lots of disposable income?

If someone already has a Tesla with a 100kW battery, I don't think the extra $3k for a solar panel will break the bank =)

I rent an apartment, where would you like me to put the solar panel?

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#525

Post by TheSmiddy »

lostlogin wrote: post #478
TheSmiddy wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in China where everybody rides ebikes and my building has a free for all parking space where 2/3rds of the parks have no chargers and the spots with charge ports all have qr codes you scan and pay with wechat to turn the port on. This is an easy problem to solve.

It sounds good - but the dark side of wechat and social credit lurks in the back of my mind. That is not an easy problem to solve.

WeChat is just how things are paid for here, obviously the solution would not rely on WeChat in any other country. In Australia you'd just tap your credit card.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#526

Post by jjav »

erik_seaberg wrote: post #516
jjav wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pre-pandemic I was commuting to a large bay area employer. About a ~hundred or so chargers in the parking lots. The choices were to either arrive very, very early ( I mostly left after 7pm so it was ok but on days when I had to go at 5pm it was a big problem, didn't have time to get enough charge to get back home. Also, there's not enough power available to feed all the chargers simultaneously. So when all chargers a…

I don’t know how anyone is so casual about this. If a charger is only available half the time, I have to plan as if it weren’t there, and then what good is it? I can run my gas tank down below 1/4 because the Bay Area is littered with 24 hour gas stations; I never have to wait a day to get gas. I’m considering a PHEV, but I can’t buy a BEV until a large majority of apartments (or maybe employers, after WFH ends) have…

To be honest I'm not casual about it, it's always very stressful if I have to drive the electric car!

I'm ok driving the e-car to work if I know for sure I can stay there until well past 7pm. If there's any chance I might need to leave before 7pm I want to drive my other (not electric) car.

On the few days where I need to leave early and can't drive the gasoline car (because wife needs it), I spend all afternoon stressing about it and walking to the parking lot every 30 minutes to look for empty spots to get the charging started ASAP so I can get home. Not fun.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#527

Post by ferongr »

username90 wrote: post #392
ndiscussion wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can confirm, I lived in one of those apartments, now I'm very happy in a suburb. It's nice to be able to haul groceries to your place without walking 4 blocks from the car for each load.

Typically in such neighborhoods in Europe the grocery store is no further than 4 blocks away, so you just walk and don't use a car. It works since the store doesn't have parking minimums either so don't take a lot of space, even if it is a fairly large one.

Carrying 35kg of groceries sucks. Especially when it rains. Personally, I drive 2km to a larger store with underground parking instead of visiting the store two blocks away.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#528

Post by ferongr »

missedthecue wrote: post #464
whatever1 wrote: post #427

EVs currently have high enough utility in the wealthy suburbia where you own your garage and have the capability to charge overnight. If you are a euro-peasant living in a third floor apartment, street parking and commuting to work, then an EV has very little utility to offer. You cannot expect that people will go on a regular basis to charge stations and spend an hour to charge their car. You cannot also have a reas…

swappable batteries seems like a two birds, one stone solution, though i'm aware they have drawbacks of their own

I wouldn't trust a high voltage battery pack that is structurally important to the chassis to the minimum wage equivalent of an oil place technician with the uuga-duuga impact gun.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#529

Post by kgwgk »

99_00 wrote: post #333
Ericson2314 wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because cars still have externalities, electrified or not. One just hopes that also increased thee gas tax too so as not to subsidize the ICE cars.

If it's about externalities then there is a ceiling on the taxes. Because combination isn't infinitely bad. If it's about revenue, taxing combustion engines gets less attractive the smaller the market becomes especially if it's easy to switch.

And if it’s about revenue, which is obviously the reason why the tax exists at all, what we’ll see is that the taxes will follow the money . They’ll find a way to increase the tax on the use of electric vehicles.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#530

Post by zizee »

athms wrote: post #514
theshrike79 wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need a "charging station", you need a wall plug that can handle 8A current without melting. In Finland we have one of those for most private parking spaces for car block heaters. If you want something fancier, it's 300-1000€ for a "proper" charging station with a Type2 cable. If you've already bought an electric car, it'll pay itself back in a few months just with fuel costs. (EU prices, American fuel price…

Great, now all I need to do is run an extension cord out the window, down the stairs, across the parking lot to my space in the carport.

Clearly you don't think it will ever be practical for you, or people in your situation. However, I encourage you to open your mind that you might not be representative of the entire auto buying market.

The first electric cars were very niche. The next were a bit more capable, and the number of people that they were suitable for increased. Each iteration they get better and better. Perhaps this iteration doesn't suit you needs. Maybe the next will not either. But one by one the objections will fall. Charging infrastructure will improve. New battery chemistries will be invented. You'll come around.

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