Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#521

Post by downvoteme1 » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 10:27 PM UTC

fermienrico wrote: post #390

rabidrat wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Richard Stallman founded the Free Software Foundation (FSF) for this very reason. You might think it's ridiculous but the fight for the right to modify the software running on devices you own has been raging for 35 years and is bigger than ever.

I am fine with this for most things except my phone. I trust Apple more than any party in the world. Even the government. Fortnight devs, Epic, whatever are not even on the same radar. They'll sell your privacy in milliseconds if they can get 2.5 cents for it. I would never ever own an open source phone. Not because the operating system is open source (probably good that it has eyes on it) but there is no way to cont…

Not related to the poster but it is surprising that HN is becoming like Reddit where non conformist opinions are downvoted extensively.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#522

Post by strbean » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 10:27 PM UTC

breakfastduck wrote: post #359

chillacy wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not dissimilar to how civil disobedience in the 60s thoroughly planned and tuned for maximum PR impact. Rosa Parks went on that bus knowing she'd make a scene. Does that change the reality being uncovered?

I dont think a massive company like Epic with all the bad practices they've implemented themselves suing another mega rich company is anything like Rosa Parks getting on that bus, though. Intentions are important considerations with something like this.

Agreed that Epic is no stranger to corporate shittiness. I think the parent's point is that somebody looking for a fight is how lots of unjust practices are ended. Complaining that Epic went into this trying to start a legal battle, and is making a PR push, is kind of looking a gift horse in the mouth imho.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#523

Post by zucker42 » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 10:27 PM UTC

jedberg wrote: post #3

It's fascinating to see the replies to the tweets. It appears most people don't care. They just want their game to work. A lesson in how your customers don't care about how your product is made.

Just from looking at the tweets a lot of people do care about the why. I see a lot of people blaming Epic for breaking the contract and some of people blaming Apple for completely kicking Epic off all Apple products. Maybe the reactions would be different if Apple had just arbitrarily kicked off Epic. And there are probably a nonzero number of people who would like to pay less money for VBucks on iOS which is how this whole conflict started anyways.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#524

Post by ocdtrekkie » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 10:28 PM UTC

iJohnDoe wrote: post #350

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #81

This just seems like a dumb move on Apple's part. It's self-sabotaging. It hurts their legal case, it hurts their public image, and it hurts their platform, as Unreal Engine is used in both iOS and macOS games. Not that many people were getting Apple platforms for games before, but they've just shoved one of the most popular engines off the platform. If the judge grants Epic a TRO, Apple is going to be in deep crud.…

Agree 100%. I also think Apple should stop collecting commission fees from all App Store sales starting today. They have billions in the bank. What are those billions for if not to invest back into the company and its developers. Foregoing all commission fees is an easy way to do that and would make Apple a hero and help developers. I’m also willing to be there would be a resurgence in the App Store and bring in more…

To be fair, I think they should probably still charge reasonable payment processing fees. They need not depend on the App Store for profit though, they should be able to drop the rate, and they should at minimum allow alternative payment processors.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#525

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 10:28 PM UTC

zeroimpl wrote: post #516

Hamuko wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it's fucked up if Apple is going to start disabling macOS apps regardless of distribution if the developer has violated their App Store rules in some way. Definitely undermines my trust in macOS.

They are also being sued by Epic. Would you keep doing business with a company suing you?

[deleted]

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#526

Post by pldr2244 » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 10:28 PM UTC

AcerbicZero wrote: post #450

pwinnski wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some might see a difference between "a developer who went public about their frustrations with the App Store" and a developer who deliberately violated the policies and then filed a lawsuit and started an extensive PR campaign.

Its a little surprising how effective that PR campaign has been so far.

It’s possible there are other forces at work here. Tencent is an owner in Epic Games/Fortnite.

This may be a show of demonstrating their importance/reach to consumers, to proactively make Trump and the US government afraid of going after them to divest assets.

Yet I still hope Trump forces them to divest assets. And I’m dumbfounded how anyone here could care to stand for Epic Games with their association to the CCP.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#527

Post by _qulr » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 10:29 PM UTC

floatingatoll wrote: post #494

damnyou wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, Apple should very obviously not have a completely unchecked right to disable arbitrary software from running on millions of computers for whatever reason they want. This is so obviously an abuse of power that I can't believe I have to spell it out so clearly. At the very least such decisions should be subject to appeal to an independent board, and failing that the legal system.

The only time in the past decade that I can think of where they used that power to remove anything other than malware on any platform, was to remove the Zoom daemon that Zoom was using to bypass Installer.app permission checks, which made sense to Apple — and to HN, at the time — because it was considered malicious/exploitable. Should they have not exercised that right, and left us all at risk — even though the daemo…

That was a bug, Apple worked together with Zoom, and Zoom still distributes software on all of Apple's platforms, including the Mac. Their developer account was not revoked.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#528

Post by kevin_b_er » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 10:29 PM UTC

amaccuish wrote: post #97

What took me aback was the withdrawing permission to notarise their apps for Mac. That was only meant to be a check for known vulnerabilities/malicious software. Apple was more within their rights to kick Fortnite until the dust has settled from the iOS store, that was the retaliation, but now a mechanism supposedly for security has been repurposed as punishment. That's a pretty nasty move and I feel the mask has sli…

This is what I expected out of the notarization. It was DRM the whole time.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#529

Post by strbean » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 10:30 PM UTC

themacguffinman wrote: post #444

fishywang wrote: post #352

My prediction is that this will backfire so badly for Apple. Apple clearly underestimated how popular Unreal Engine is to game developers. Apple probably expect developers to just switch to other engines when they took UE away from them, but in reality most of the developers currently using UE will just stop publishing on Apple's platforms because that's no longer a profitable platform (consider the investment for de…

Are you sure? iOS is something like half the US market and its userbase is likely more wealthy on average, I don't think any normal game developer could sacrifice that to keep using what is essentially an implementation detail at the end of the day, no matter how good it is.

How many kids with iPhones will now insist that their next phone be Android so they can play Forkknife? This could genuinely make a dent in the iPhone's market share long term.

edit: Count on the irrational fanbois to deliver drive-by downvotes!

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#530

Post by arcticbull » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 10:30 PM UTC

baddox wrote: post #487

arcticbull wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW I personally don't. However, I see the argument to be made that in selling a Mac or an iPhone, you're being sold a general-purpose computing device with explicit value added by third-party software vendors. Also, on macOS, you were sold the explicit ability to run whatever software you want. It's purpose is to run software from third-parties. When you bought a Tesla, that wasn't how the car was represented to yo…

> Also, on macOS, you were sold the explicit ability to run whatever software you want. It's purpose is to run software from third-parties. I agree with that, and I think there would be a much stronger argument if Apple changed MacOS to remove this ability when it is a very well-established ability of the Mac platform. Of course, Apple almost certainly will not remove this ability, not because they want to be nice or…

> I have a lot of trouble buying the argument that any significant number of iPhone owners expected to be able to run any third-party software they want to.

While I agree with the overwhelming majority of your reply, I'd suggest that the significant majority of iPhone owners expect to be able to run "any third-party software they want" because they expect substantially any third-party software they would want to be available in the App Store. Removing Epic is violating that implicit understanding.