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Google no longer providing original URL in AMP for image search results

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Re: Google no longer providing original URL in AMP for image search results

#521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly, Ublock Origin is literally the only Firefox extension available on Android atm.

Not quite literal: It's recently up to 6 addons -- the others are https everywhere, privacy badger, noscript, dark reader, and search by image. Note to others: this is about the upcoming rewrite, available as Firefox Preview and Firefox Beta.

I have the beta, and only have uBlock origin. If I go to the addons site it tells me that, for example, privacy badger is not available on Firefox for Android.

Re: Google no longer providing original URL in AMP for image search results

#522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes $300 million every year to Mozille but WHAT SABOTAGE !

If you sabotage a competitor so that their market share is irrelevant then you don’t have to pay them as large an amount of cash to make sure their users keep coming your way.

Okay please ask Mozilla to stop accepting cash if this is the case

Re: Google no longer providing original URL in AMP for image search results

#523

How does anyone think this is a good idea? It should be clear which news site I am reading when I'm reading an article. Otherwise, how do I know which bias to apply? On iOS, the title bar says "google.com" whether I'm reading an article from CNN.com or WashingtonExaminer.com. Of all the anti-competitive actions google has taken around search results, AMP is by far the worst. I hope they get smacked down for it in the…

This news is talking about amp image search and you talking about amp post. First visit this URL https://twitter.com/zenexer/status/1265633022709301249 and understand what this post want to tell us.

Re: Google no longer providing original URL in AMP for image search results

#524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a good example of the contradictions within AMP that limit it's usability as a technology. Unless AMP was really intended as a privacy tool this whole time and I just didn't know it, publishers probably "should" know the same amount they would get to know if you visited one of their actual pages, if you are visiting an AMP for the purpose of consuming their content rather than merely searching for it. But if…

Your comment does not make any sense to me. Are we talking about the same thing? A snippet is a summary of the page served by the search engine. The publisher currently does not have any idea that a particular user has seen a snippet, so publishers do "know the same amount" as they did before with AMP, which is nothing. > Is that how you feel about regular search results? Regular search results have snippets.

I'm sorry that you were having difficulty interpreting my comment. It may help if you go back and note that I was making a distinction between using AMP to consume content vs search for it. Publishers normally know when their content is being consumed. Let me know if that makes sense to you.

>Regular search results have snippets.

Right, and I was asking about the search results, not the snippets that accompany them. That is to say, the part with the blue title, green link, and the few lines in black displayed from the page that are displayed ten at a time, not the snippets that accompany them at the top of the page. Unless you were just using 'snippets' as a general term to mean the same thing that I mean by search results, in which case you were just repeating the content of my own question back to me.

Re: Google no longer providing original URL in AMP for image search results

#526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. Are there examples I can search for right now? For instance, are there searches I could do for a news article, that will show an AMP for a CNN article that's on a non-google url? Do you have a ballpark estimate of what percentage of total amps are delivered by non Google domains? Also how would you reconcile your comment with that of madeofpalk who appears to be treating that possibility as a hypothetica…

> an AMP for a CNN article that's on a non-google url? All AMP pages exist at non-Google URLs. They are just cached by the link aggregator (typically a search engine), so the link aggregator can prerender them without deanonymizing the user to the publisher until the user clicks the link. AMP served by CNN: https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/05/27/world/france-shooting-sai... The same page served out of Bing's AMP cache: h…

You appear to have reinterpreted my questions and translated them into terms that were different than I intended, so I guess I have to take care to go back to the start and restate my original question in a way that uses the appropriate magic words correctly.

I don't intend to ask whether AMPs (hard to resist calling them 'AMP pages') exist somewhere on non Google servers. Obviously third party content that Google is presenting exists somewhere off Google. And obviously it has to be formatted in a way that's compatible with AMP, and it makes sense that that is going to be done off Google domains. I at least knew the gist of that already, and I regard the detour into that explanation to have been a non sequitur. The point is that Google presents AMPs and it serves it's cached version of them from Google servers, on a Google domain. The beginning, middle, and end of the experience of searching for finding and consuming that news never has to involve leaving a Google domain. It's not open in the sense of involving interaction between servers that aren't controlled by Google, until you make that extra click to go from a cached Google version of an AMP to the version that sits on the domain controlled by a third party, at which point going to the third party has been rendered optional and largely unnecessary from the point of view of the user.

This next part is super important: the fact that I'm asking about openness and interoperability, or the lack thereof, in this sense doesn't mean that I'm failing understand the technical advantages with caching and optimization. I regard those as derails that don't wrestle with the issue of openness that's being raised. The point is that the connection between consumers of content who start on Google, and the third party content provider, increasingly depends on Google in a way that shifts nearly the entire experience of consuming content onto Google's infrastructure.

>All of them (100%) are delivered by non-Google domains to Google, Bing, and other caches.

This is the starkest example of a question not being answered but replaced with a different question. I asked 'what percentage of total amps are delivered by non Google domains' and you replied by answering a different question, what percent of non-Google amps were delivered TO Google and other caches, noting that it was 100%. Which of course it is, but that's because that's a tautology.

By contrast, it is helpful to note that there are caches other than Google, like Bing and 'others', which, in contrast to much of the rest of your comment, I feel actually is a pertinent and fair response to the question I'm actually asking. But those aren't content providers, so unless Bing or Google are content creators that were delivering content to themselves, it's tautologically true that 100% of that is going to be delivered to them by third parties, which has absolutely nothing to do with openness. If I'm using magic words correctly, I guess what I want to ask is what percentage of AMP traffic to cached pages is served to users by Bing and others that aren't Google.

Re: Google no longer providing original URL in AMP for image search results

#528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically, Google is penalizing webmasters who do NOT support AMP (also by rewarding competitors who DO support it); if you depend on Google search results for a significant portion of your traffic, not having AMP will impact your business.

Problem here is twofold. First Google being anticompetitive. Second being companies thinking they need Google for their income.

The companies are mostly right though.

Re: Google no longer providing original URL in AMP for image search results

#529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup--check out the follow-up thread. https://twitter.com/Zenexer/status/1265696063345786881 Me: When can we expect to see a fix? As of right now, there’s no easy way to visit the original URL. Malte Ubl: I don't have a timeline. The share menu should help getting the underlying URL! Me: I’m sure I don’t need to explain how this looks; regardless of your intentions, it comes across as a fairly hollow response. The iss…

I agree with everything you're saying and every single point you're trying to make here, but, as someone who's been on the other end, your responses are exactly why people hate posting about this stuff publicly. He doesn't have the authority to speak on it (alone) but you trapped him into accidently saying something he wasn't trying to say (in fact he only said it to be nice and reply to your question - which he had…

> as someone who's been on the other end, your responses are exactly why people hate posting about this stuff publicly

I’m well aware. But this is a pretty serious problem, and we, as Google’s users, have very few options for effecting change. If I’m given an opportunity to make a point, I’m going to seize it.

He thinks it can be done in a couple days. Does the rest of the company care enough to make that happen? Let’s find out.

Re: Google no longer providing original URL in AMP for image search results

#530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> an AMP for a CNN article that's on a non-google url? All AMP pages exist at non-Google URLs. They are just cached by the link aggregator (typically a search engine), so the link aggregator can prerender them without deanonymizing the user to the publisher until the user clicks the link. AMP served by CNN: https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/05/27/world/france-shooting-sai... The same page served out of Bing's AMP cache: h…

You appear to have reinterpreted my questions and translated them into terms that were different than I intended, so I guess I have to take care to go back to the start and restate my original question in a way that uses the appropriate magic words correctly. I don't intend to ask whether AMPs (hard to resist calling them 'AMP pages') exist somewhere on non Google servers. Obviously third party content that Google is…

An AMP is a page (expand the acronym). I answered your question very precisely, and your response shows that you still don't understand it.

> If I'm using magic words correctly, I guess what I want to ask is what percentage of AMP traffic to cached pages is served to users by Bing and others that aren't Google.

If I search on Bing, the results will be prerendered from Bing's AMP cache. Reread the GP comment, and see if you can understand why that is so.

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