Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, from my perspective it seems common practice in most open source projects which are hosted on GH that maintainers at least consider PRs and typically only reject if the PR is flawed, incomplete or somehow adds feature creep. Of course any maintainer is free to handle it differently, but if going against usual expectations, it would be benefitial for all involved to note reluctance to PRs prominently to the Read…
This isn’t true at all. Many projects even say “we won’t accept PRs” in their README. When the code is being used internally at Microsoft, it makes even more sense they wouldn’t take PRs.
A Sad Day for Rust
521–530 of 1001 posts
Re: A Sad Day for Rust
#522A lot of this thread has it wrong, and this wrongness contributes to the problem which led to this. I have two simple mantras which establish my philosophy here: 1. YOU are responsible for your dependencies. 2. Open source participants are volunteers and owe you nothing. It was never Nikolay's job to vet actix-web for you, nor did it become his job when the library became popular, nor does invoking "security" change…
Given that Chromium is a open source project, and lost of people here are strongly against Google's proposal to limit the ability of ad block extensions, with much stronger words compared to this incident. What's your opinion on that?
Re: A Sad Day for Rust
#523It's easy to get any bug fix you want: pay for them. If you think loading your expectations on to an unpaid volunteer and then harassing them over it will work out, hopefully this moment is a good learning experience for you. (Unfortunately, I can see from reading the comments that not everyone is getting it.) Perhaps someone should create an OSS contributor agreement where contributors explicitly agree to work long…
I want to preface my comment with "I agree with you" However, in this case patches and reproductions were submitted and rejected as "boring". Whether the author really meant to use the word "boring" is neither here nor there, the result was that the fix was ignored, even though that's how open source works! I've watched from the sidelines with no skin in the game (I use Rocket) and my conclusion from all of this is t…
E.g, "...that's how open source works!"
That's your opinion, but what obligates the developer to adhere to this?
If the question is, was this a professionally run OSS project I would say, certainly not, and I assume almost everyone would agree. But so what? Why should a maintainer be expected to run an OSS project to a certain level of responsiveness or spin up a governance mechanism if they can't do it on their own?
> The obvious difference that I can see is the maintainer response to said criticisms.
I would suggest that reddit mobs are almost entirely capricious, random, and irrational.
Re: A Sad Day for Rust
#524This is a sad day for Rust. Situations can spiral out of control. Who started it? Who escalated it? You can't really define these because communication is sloppy and difficult, especially when there are cultural and language barriers involved. The only way to not get these situations to spiral out of control are a thick skin, forgiveness, and assuming noble intent. There have been times on here where I see discussion…
Some of the latter will be forked, and the forks certified to higher levels, and those forked again and the forks certified or de-certified again.
This marks a step on the way to maturity, right on schedule. By the evidence, in ten years Rust will be a mature language, much more quickly than some. Most don't get there.
Re: A Sad Day for Rust
#525Re: A Sad Day for Rust
#526Re: A Sad Day for Rust
#527Earlier quoted context omitted.
And this is why I honestly don't ever want to release an open-source project. At the very least, I'm not going to make it easy for people to contribute. I'll keep the git repo private, go without a ticketing system, and just post tarballs full of code on a self-hosted website (I guess like the NetHack team used to do before 3.6, but they had a ticketing system, and I wouldn't). Maybe I'll even use a non-free license…
> Maybe I'll even use a non-free license just to reinforce my "you take what you can get" policy. Consider CC0 instead. As a veteran open source contributor, I totally understand that dealing with open source communities has a huge cost to go with the huge benefit. Even just vetting patches can be a pain when you care about security and architecture and don't want to spend time endlessly explaining your choices. CC0…
Re: A Sad Day for Rust
#528Re: A Sad Day for Rust
#529Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Having a project maintainer then call those patches boring or otherwise disregard them? That's childish So what? Along the same lines, it's not a maintainer's responsibility to follow best-practices, respond to feedback/PRs, or respond in any coherent way to anything asked of them. The fact that you call them childish for not acting they way you want them to makes me think you are the childish one. With those PRs w…
It was advertised as a production-ready web-framework, and it was very popular. When do people get to complain? "Oh, my credit card information was stolen due to memory issues in this web-service, it's fine though, we didn't pay the guy, so we can't blame him.". Web-frameworks are cornerstones for security, and if you write one, advertise one, you need to care about security. Features, code-style, ad-hoc PRs, bug-fix…
No, you don't. The author doesn't owe you a single thing unless you have a warranty saying otherwise. Most licenses explicitly say something like:
THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED ``AS IS'' AND WITHOUT ANY EXPRESS OR
IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, THE IMPLIED
WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE
If you don't like the terms, don't accept the code. I don't see how that could be more clear.Re: A Sad Day for Rust
#530Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Having a project maintainer then call those patches boring or otherwise disregard them? That's childish So what? Along the same lines, it's not a maintainer's responsibility to follow best-practices, respond to feedback/PRs, or respond in any coherent way to anything asked of them. The fact that you call them childish for not acting they way you want them to makes me think you are the childish one. With those PRs w…
It was advertised as a production-ready web-framework, and it was very popular. When do people get to complain? "Oh, my credit card information was stolen due to memory issues in this web-service, it's fine though, we didn't pay the guy, so we can't blame him.". Web-frameworks are cornerstones for security, and if you write one, advertise one, you need to care about security. Features, code-style, ad-hoc PRs, bug-fix…
The word "need" there is wrong. You could (and perhaps should) take the opinion that one should care about security, but there is no obligation (legal, financial, or moral) that requires an open source maintainer to care about anything. If you want those obligations, get a contract and pay some money.
What's happened here, and you seem to have fallen into this trap too, is that people believe software abstractions also automatically abstract responsibility. It's certainly not a new mistake.
What this incident seems to show (and I'm not a Rust community person, I've just been reading a lot of the threads/archives about this) is not that the framework maintainer was terrible, but instead, that what he was offering was not what people assumed it to be - some people assumed the project would behave in certain ways, and have invested their time (and presumably money) in building on top of that project, only to discover that the project does not behave how they want and now they feel burned.
I believe that being an unpaid open source maintainer (which I am, and have been, in various small ways, for a couple of decades) means having a best-effort responsibility to your community, but never at the expense of yourself. That is, however, just my belief, and nobody is obligated in any way to share it.
The ancestor post about owning dependencies, while a little more aggressive than I might have written it, is basically right. You don't abstract responsibility for code just because it came neatly packaged - if you don't have a support contract for it, you are responsible for it. That's just basic logic really.
Having said all that, I do think that deleting the repos was a poor reaction - I believe (again, just me) that a maintainer should step aside gracefully when they are no longer the best person to lead a project. If there are people to hand it off to, do that. If not, archive it and indicate that it is unmaintained.