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Terminating Service for 8Chan

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Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#521

Post by jlawson »

tapland wrote: post #403
jlawson wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your premise is wrong. Mass shootings and killings happen across the globe at rates comparable to America. America is exceptional only in its population, which obviously increases the number of events without increasing their prevalence, and in its proximity to you personally, which increases how much you hear about American events versus other events. Even Polifact has fact-checked this and found that America is not…

You know when you cherry pick countries with 1 attack and a small population, then stack Norway with 1, finland with 2 etc and proclaim "look these small places should be compared per capita with the US, 1 attack surely is enough data points", then don't look at the combined EU and state that gun legislation is fine? Maybe you even misrepresent (frequency, literally noone claims that mass killings cannot physically h…

It would be good if you actually looked at the study because it talks about dozens and dozens of countries. There is no cherry-picking and it is not a one-to-one comparison with one other country.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#522

Post by mort96 »

odessacubbage wrote: post #515
mort96 wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taking orders from gay people and hosting services for sites which support far-right terrorism aren't exactly the same though. We can be against suppressing gay people and for suppressing far-right terrorism even if the means by which the suppression happens is similar.

and what about the the communities for queers and autistics on 8ch that will be lost in order to cater to your particular sense of indignation while in effect doing virtually nothing to limit the ability of psychopathic losers to kill large numbers of people? as an aside assigning any credibility to the motives of crazy person with no value for human life makes no more sense in the case of mass killings than it does…

What about those communities? I'm sure they can stay on 8chan, or find somewhere else?

I'd not say the recent far-right terrorism is just from some individual psychopaths with no value for human life. There's a ton of far-right/alt-right ideas out there, on platforms like 8chan, which actively demonizes certain groups of people. It's not like these shootings are just crazy people who just want to kill people at random; they want to kill the people they see as the "enemy".

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#523

Post by anigbrowl »

tenpies wrote: post #238
Iv wrote: post #79

Tor's onion service will always there to provide hosting to the less popular ideas. The censorship-resistant network is there. Make sure to give it some love. Last time I checked, people were discussing how to murder, exchanging nazi manifestos and conspiracy theories. I was looking for anarchist discussions but I actually ended up having these on reddit. Don't get fooled by the current positioning of IT firms, it on…

> I actually ended up having these on reddit I am actually quite surprised how complicit the media is in not reporting what goes on Reddit. It's the one place on the "mainstream" internet I run into where you can see calls for political assassinations in default subs, sub-reddits devoted to theft, ethno-nationalism, terrorism, and all sorts of content that makes 4chan seem tame in comparison. Then there is the huge c…

Journalists do care but it's hard to get those stories the attention they deserve. To the general public a lot of these discussions seem like a tempest in a teacup, much as many people dismissed climate change and other problematic issues because they seemed too abstract.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#524

Post by anigbrowl »

ViViDboarder wrote: post #341
tenpies wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I actually ended up having these on reddit I am actually quite surprised how complicit the media is in not reporting what goes on Reddit. It's the one place on the "mainstream" internet I run into where you can see calls for political assassinations in default subs, sub-reddits devoted to theft, ethno-nationalism, terrorism, and all sorts of content that makes 4chan seem tame in comparison. Then there is the huge c…

If reported, Reddit (the company) will usually moderate or shut down subs like those. Recent example being what they just did with /r/T_D.

True, but it's a lot of work with no reward for the reporters.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#525

Post by blacklight86 »

What kind of free speech are we exactly advocating here? The freedom to spread cheap hate, fake news and bigotry against minorities? I'm sorry but moderating such offenses isn't a limitation to free speech. For the same reason why, if you start shouting nig or monkey to black people in a shopping mall, the police is likely to intervene and take you away - and I don't think that any sane person would argue that they're violating your freedom of speech. Popper taught us that we can't be tolerant towards intolerants, if we really want to protect our tolerant rule of law.

You can still have freedom of speech while implementing moderation to make sure that hate speech, bigotry and fake news don't spread - because if those things spread then they leak into the real world as death. 8chan has been shut down not only because it hosted hate communities, but because it refused to apply any moderation there.

However, the problem is not 8chan alone. It's good to shut down websites where hate speech proliferates without constraints, but a couple of days or weeks later new *chan websites are likely to pop up to replace them, or maybe they'd make a Telegram group. The root problem is Americans. And I'm honestly not sure of how to fix the problem with a whole population that has become so irrational, polarized, ignorant and sensitive to hate speech.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#526

Post by anigbrowl »

sytelus wrote: post #205

This is the same argument cake shops make against taking order from gay people. I do believe that so-called manifesto is mind-numbingly dumb, fact-free and it is dangerous in the sense it will inspire more violence against innocent people. But that precisely what makes it a good test case for asking some fundamental questions. Can commercial businesses with deep reach, pricing power and critical function deny service…

I am perfectly OK with discriminating against people who enthusiastically plot the death of others just because of ethnic prejudice.

'Speech I don't like' is the kind I can choose to argue with or roll my eyes and ignore. But if people are actively inciting murder, organizing it, and workshopping all aspects of murder technique and how to promote it effectively with the same gusto as any commercial product launch, it's foolish to ignore it.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#527

Post by anigbrowl »

odessacubbage wrote: post #515
mort96 wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taking orders from gay people and hosting services for sites which support far-right terrorism aren't exactly the same though. We can be against suppressing gay people and for suppressing far-right terrorism even if the means by which the suppression happens is similar.

and what about the the communities for queers and autistics on 8ch that will be lost in order to cater to your particular sense of indignation while in effect doing virtually nothing to limit the ability of psychopathic losers to kill large numbers of people? as an aside assigning any credibility to the motives of crazy person with no value for human life makes no more sense in the case of mass killings than it does…

What about them? They can move to other chans, plenty of which survive and thrive without heaps of nazis. If the owners of 8ch wanted to get rid of the nazis, then they wouldn't be coming under DDOS attack in about 5 minutes.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#528

Post by cybersnowflake »

I love how everybody is having a cow over a website where the rhetoric isn't really all that much worse than a 'mainstream' site like twitter. For example in twitter you can find guys who call for children to be fed into wood chippers because they wear Maga hats and hundreds/thousands of people including corporate accounts like Burger King cheering assaulting people. And they almost all receive absolutely no punishment. And not a single one of all the sensitive bearded men pouring their hearts out in righteous fury at 8chan here seem to care. And I'm pretty sure a ton of killers use twitter.

When I was a child I used to think the ideals of freedom of expression were ingrained in this society. But apparently all it takes is the MSM running a few hitpieces and the 'intellectuals' are all 'lol 1st Amendment technically applying to government means it is not only permitted but great that all censorship is now offloaded to megacorporate oligarchies! fuck free speech!'

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#529

Post by berryfarm »

481092 wrote: post #470
ReptileMan wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are utility though. Have you thought about that people support neutrality/common carrier style behavior with 8chan existing being the acceptable price to pay and not 8 chan itself?

They host and indirectly disseminate media, just like a news network. Do you expect Fox or CNN to host views they don't find acceptable? If we're going to accept that biased media is legal (news networks) then biased media is legal (Cloudflare), although you'd have a harder time making a case of bias against Cloudflare in comparison to the former.

Fox and CNN are indeed liable for what they display because they are publishers. They control the content.

That's kind of the point.

Cloudflare and social media co's naturally want to be protected as a platform. If they start controlling the content in an ad hoc it's a lot harder for them to claim that.

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