Katie Bouman, the computer scientist behind the first black hole image • Hacker News Board

Re: Katie Bouman, the computer scientist behind the first black hole image

#521

Post by themarkn » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 7:00 PM UTC

rjf72 wrote: post #520

themarkn wrote: post #501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's based on things I've listened to women say about working in male-dominated fields, and on the many other studies that contradict the one in that article. Even the author of that study doesn't go as far as you, she admits the results do not mean there is no discrimination. "Radically overcorrecting" seems a couple of steps beyond that. I guess we'll just both be astonished. Sometimes two people look at the exact…

Please do share these studies. I'm reasonably well read on this topic and have found all contemporary studies to be of a similar result. The thing you may be misunderstanding, as it's often made less than clear, is that there is an inequality of result - not of opportunity. Women who choose to pursue STEM are embraced with open arms. BUT very few choose to pursue it in the first place and, of those that do, many end…

> This inequality of result, and the inability to attribute such to intrinsic factors, is the great "gender bias."

Ok I don't have the energy to keep this conversation going, the distance between us is too great.

Re: Katie Bouman, the computer scientist behind the first black hole image

#522

Post by dennisgorelik » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 7:26 PM UTC

QuotedForTruth wrote: post #472

dennisgorelik wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that effect is, they trained different versions of the model with different sets of complete images What does training mean? I thought that the training means to adjust Neural Network until it learns to convert our input into expected output of "complete image". But if thaining means to teach the model to produce expected "complete image", then how is it possible that "the output of the model was approximately the…

Training is to feed in thousands of sets of {sparse sample of actual image, actual image}. The model is adjusted until the total difference between the output image and the actual image is minimized across all training images. The output images are approximately the same because the model is "looking" at training images at a lower level that we do. The talk says they chop the images up into small pieces. So the model…

Kathie said [1] "What you can do is to use methods where you [have] do not need any calibration whatsoever and you can still can get pretty good results. So here on the bottom at the top is the truth image, and this is simulated data, as we are increasing the amount of amplitude error and you can see here ... it's hard to see ... but it breaks down once you add too much gain here. But if we use just closure quantities - we are invariant to that. So that really, actually, been a really huge step for the project, because we had such bad gains. " [1] https://youtu.be/UGL_OL3OrCE?t=1177

Re: Katie Bouman, the computer scientist behind the first black hole image

#523

Post by diedyesterday » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 8:23 PM UTC

realradicalwash wrote: post #265

Her story is trully inspiring! She seems like a really likable person, has been hard working, with great results, making a major contribution. The photo with her and the hard drives is amazing and I am sure she will inspire many to enter science. However, I think to call her "the woman behind the first black hole image" is a hyperbole. It makes it sound as if she was _the one person_ responsible that all this came ab…

Feminists and many good for nothing women/men in the media need heroes to inspire confidence and interest in science in their kind and that's essentially the subconscious reason behind this sensational over-magnification of one individual.

Re: Katie Bouman, the computer scientist behind the first black hole image

#524

Post by diedyesterday » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 8:35 PM UTC

rcruzeiro wrote: post #339

realradicalwash wrote: post #265

Her story is trully inspiring! She seems like a really likable person, has been hard working, with great results, making a major contribution. The photo with her and the hard drives is amazing and I am sure she will inspire many to enter science. However, I think to call her "the woman behind the first black hole image" is a hyperbole. It makes it sound as if she was _the one person_ responsible that all this came ab…

Just like the Portuguese scientist involved is getting more coverage than her here in Portugal. It's just natural I guess. People want to find someone relatable.

One difference is that you're all Portuguese in Portugal. But they are not all women in the US or whatever and they will react if they sense "unfairness". There are no (substantial) non-Portuguese in Portugal to react!

Re: Katie Bouman, the computer scientist behind the first black hole image

#525

Post by diedyesterday » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 8:41 PM UTC

streb-lo wrote: post #313

Serious question HN: If Katie was a man do you think people would be going through git histories and their published papers trying to determine if she is being over-credited for her achievements?

Of course they would. At least some feminists would. Even now some Nobel prizes (e.g. Watson for DNA structure) and the credit for some discoveries attributed to some men is disputed by some feminist activists. I hate all this identity politics though.

Also if she was a man her story and contribution wouldn't be as sensationalized as has been done.

Re: Katie Bouman, the computer scientist behind the first black hole image

#526

Post by wrycoder » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 9:02 PM UTC

martin_bech wrote: post #514

hoorayimhelping wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, absolutely. I've made comments before to the effect of: I cringe hard enough to actually feel physical discomfort every time a headline refers to a team effort of SpaceX as "Elon Musk's Rocket."

Well since he founded and owns the company.. legally it would be his Rocket, would it not?

Does anyone here believe that rocket system would exist without Musk?

Re: Katie Bouman, the computer scientist behind the first black hole image

#527

Post by aassddffasdf » Sun, Apr 14, 2019, 12:14 AM UTC

kemitchell wrote: post #374

realradicalwash wrote: post #265

Her story is trully inspiring! She seems like a really likable person, has been hard working, with great results, making a major contribution. The photo with her and the hard drives is amazing and I am sure she will inspire many to enter science. However, I think to call her "the woman behind the first black hole image" is a hyperbole. It makes it sound as if she was _the one person_ responsible that all this came ab…

I don't understand how "the woman behind the first black hole image" is hyperbole. She's a woman and she's behind the first black hole image. I don't think anybody truly believes that taking images of black holes is a one-person job. And the title doesn't imply that. Neither does the next, boldface paragraph in the article: > A 29-year-old computer scientist has earned plaudits worldwide for helping develop the algor…

The problem is with the article "the". She's one of many people behind the first black hole image.

Re: Katie Bouman, the computer scientist behind the first black hole image

#528

Post by BigFish12 » Sun, Apr 14, 2019, 2:32 AM UTC

kemitchell wrote: post #374

realradicalwash wrote: post #265

Her story is trully inspiring! She seems like a really likable person, has been hard working, with great results, making a major contribution. The photo with her and the hard drives is amazing and I am sure she will inspire many to enter science. However, I think to call her "the woman behind the first black hole image" is a hyperbole. It makes it sound as if she was _the one person_ responsible that all this came ab…

I don't understand how "the woman behind the first black hole image" is hyperbole. She's a woman and she's behind the first black hole image. I don't think anybody truly believes that taking images of black holes is a one-person job. And the title doesn't imply that. Neither does the next, boldface paragraph in the article: > A 29-year-old computer scientist has earned plaudits worldwide for helping develop the algor…

It doesn't say "A woman behind", it says "THE woman behind". Big difference.

Re: Katie Bouman, the computer scientist behind the first black hole image

#529

Post by rjf72 » Sun, Apr 14, 2019, 4:41 AM UTC

themarkn wrote: post #521

rjf72 wrote: post #520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please do share these studies. I'm reasonably well read on this topic and have found all contemporary studies to be of a similar result. The thing you may be misunderstanding, as it's often made less than clear, is that there is an inequality of result - not of opportunity. Women who choose to pursue STEM are embraced with open arms. BUT very few choose to pursue it in the first place and, of those that do, many end…

> This inequality of result, and the inability to attribute such to intrinsic factors, is the great "gender bias." Ok I don't have the energy to keep this conversation going, the distance between us is too great.

Sure thing. Do shoot me the links to those studies you referenced though. I'm unaware of any such thing, but of course I am always be willing to consider the possibility that my preconceptions are inaccurate - something everybody ought be willing to do.

Re: Katie Bouman, the computer scientist behind the first black hole image

#530

Post by brianpan » Sun, Apr 14, 2019, 7:56 AM UTC

heartbreak wrote: post #505

CydeWeys wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn't a photographic image (they're using radio waves, not visible light). This is a visual representation of the radio waves. And yes, this is one way of representing the data. I'm not sure exactly what your question is though, as actually getting this data is really important to confirm a variety of theories and also to potentially open up new avenues for investigation. And this cost orders of magnitude less th…

> This is a visual representation of the radio waves So a photograph.

An image (or picture). I'm no expert but I think it's more like an MRI than a photograph or x-ray. It's not a direct image or projection. It's calculated.