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Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

nytimes.com

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Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#521

Post by asdff »

kodablah wrote: post #312
berbec wrote: post #7

Not going to miss them. Local governments giving huge tax breaks in exchange for stadiums, businesses relocating never works out.

I have plenty of examples where it works out. The town I live in gave large tax breaks not too long ago and it's working well. Nearby, sports facilities were financed with balloted measures at the request of the public, sometimes in conjunction with the local ISDs who share the facilities. The vast majority are benefiting from this public/private economic cooperation.

Sports facilities are a shared multi use venue that a city could make use of for decades. Amazon can and would move their staff whenever they want, and all the subsidies given to them just to have their people sit in Queens for 8 hours a day would be pissed away.

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#522

Post by youdontknowtho »

lccarrasco wrote: post #184
untog wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would the tax breaks eventually be offset? Amazon paid zero federal tax for the last two years running. They're experts at tax avoidance. I don't see any reason to assume they wouldn't do the same in NY.

All new employees would've paid income and sales taxes.

All of that wouldn't cover what Amazon would end up costing the area.

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#523

Post by puzzle »

walrus01 wrote: post #421
puzzle wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of the largest colo tenants like Internap already left years ago: https://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2013/07/29/inte... At Google's densities, they would never run a datacenter in Manhattan. POPs, sure, like their peering with https://www.peeringdb.com/fac/16 , but that's it.

Internap has never really been relevant as a large scale colo/datacenter provider, if you look at the square footage of their facilities compared to major competition like Equinix and Digital Realty Trust. They're more of a managed services provider.

I meant tenants in that building.

"The Internap expansion represents approximately 1.3MW of additional critical power in a severely constrained downtown NY market.”

https://www.inap.com/press-release/internap-continues-green-...

That was 34000 sqft. Equinix has 36000.

Edit: they had 75K by the time they left. DRT says they have 110K.

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#524

Post by marrone12 »

nodesocket wrote: post #502
clydethefrog wrote: post #482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gentrification is the opposite of people moving up the economic ladder - it's the influx of more affluent residents.

So you really think Amazon was only going to hire people that already had wealth. It's not possible that somebody making $50k a year, could land a great new position at Amazon making $150k? Cortez is shooting her democrat constituents in the foot, and living up to her affiliation of democratic-socialist.

That's not what happens though. Amazon would be recruiting people from Ivy League schools, big consulting firms, other large tech companies.

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#525

Post by RPLong »

gipp wrote: post #407
RPLong wrote: post #223

I guess I didn't realize how many commentators here were New Yorkers. XD Everyone's moving to more comfortable places with lower costs of living. NYC is not an attractive place for job candidates unless those candidates are already in NYC. Even companies with a strong presence in NYC are expanding in places like Nashville, Omaha, Dallas, Denver, etc. rather than in NYC. At some point, New Yorkers ought to ask themsel…

This is... Simply not accurate. NYC job market for tech is extremely hot and getting hotter. Consider that your perspective might be skewed because people in lower COL areas tend to be those who place more emphasis on COL?

Tech market is hot everywhere. NYC has been an aberration on cost of living for my whole lifetime and more. What's new is the plethora of tech jobs outside of NYC and SF. Again, ask yourself why great tech jobs would suddenly appear in Nashville, TN. Why would that happen? Why do you think?

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#526

Post by koheripbal »

jcfrei wrote: post #414
zelias wrote: post #55

If Amazon had just quietly announced plans to expand to LIC without the "HQ2 Search" dog and pony show they almost certainly would still be here. Google buys entire city blocks and nobody bats an eye. Turns out that publicly shaking down cities across the US tends to draw out the opposition. More publicity = more scrutiny = more angry opponents of your business decision

Exactly, this was a huge communication error on Amazons and the politicians' side. Offering such huge subsidies to a single company will never go down well in the current political landscape - especially not in a city with a resurgent left.

> not in a city with a resurgent left.

IRRATIONAL left. This investment on the part of Amazon gave way way way more to the city than it got back in subsidies.

It's kind of ridiculous. If I were Amazon, I would drop NYC in a heartbeat if they didn't appreciate that degree of investment.

The subsidies were 1.525 billion. Amazon's investment was expected to be around 2.5 billion. Only an irrational fool cannot do that math.

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#527

Post by KorematsuFred »

zelias wrote: post #55

If Amazon had just quietly announced plans to expand to LIC without the "HQ2 Search" dog and pony show they almost certainly would still be here. Google buys entire city blocks and nobody bats an eye. Turns out that publicly shaking down cities across the US tends to draw out the opposition. More publicity = more scrutiny = more angry opponents of your business decision

A sheriff of a small town told me how they ended up spending thousands of dollars to SWAT team which he thinks he will never use. The reason ? After some school shooting in another end of USA the folks of his county wanted to know how their LEAs plan to defend the local schools. The correct response here was that they do not expect such law probability even and even if it happens there is very little they can actually do.

But public does not like it and hence they had to put together a fake plan and waste money. Which could have otherwise gone into preventing real crimes.

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#528

Post by lkrubner »

koheripbal wrote: post #488
tytso wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The opposition is not because some high tech firm, whether it is Google or Amazon, is expanding in NYC. The opposition is because of the Massive tax breaks and other $$$ giveaways New York was going to hand over to Amazon. I don't recall Google extorting NYC for $$$ before they decided to expand....

A "tax break" is just a reduction in taxes that otherwise wouldn't be paid at all . It still means a profit for the city. It's not like NYC is paying Amazon to come to NYC. NYC would still make huge tax revenues from additional sales, real estate, income taxes, and corporate taxes. Now they're turning that all away. It's such an irrational decision that if I were Amazon, it would raise a big red flag for me as well.…

This is incorrect:

"that otherwise wouldn't be paid at all"

The opposite is true, 100% of those taxes will be paid by some other business. Maybe you could make your argument about the New York City of the 1970s, but you sure as heck can not make that argument about the New York City of 2019. New York City is not starving for investment, rather, its biggest challenge nowadays is managing its fast growth. Other businesses will move into those buildings, and hire those workers, and they will pay normal taxes, which is a lot more than what Amazon offered.

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#529

Post by ctvo »

gipp wrote: post #384
ctvo wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google announcing they to double their presence in New York is not the same as Amazon signing an agreement of understanding with the city and state. Google hasn't committed to anything. Once it does, it will most likely seek the same tax benefits that Amazon did from the pre-existing programs if it qualifies

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bizjournals.com/newyork/new... ?

What are we discussing here? Yes, Google wants to hire more people in NYC.

In NYC there are are tax incentive plans for relocating and hiring that companies can apply for if they qualify. Just because Google doesn’t include that portion in their announcement does not mean they won’t pursue it if they can.

A good article would be one where Google states it won’t take any tax incentives even if it qualifies for it.

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#530

Post by RPLong »

wgerard wrote: post #424
RPLong wrote: post #223

I guess I didn't realize how many commentators here were New Yorkers. XD Everyone's moving to more comfortable places with lower costs of living. NYC is not an attractive place for job candidates unless those candidates are already in NYC. Even companies with a strong presence in NYC are expanding in places like Nashville, Omaha, Dallas, Denver, etc. rather than in NYC. At some point, New Yorkers ought to ask themsel…

> At some point, New Yorkers ought to ask themselves why everyone wants to move to these nice midwestern cities. Not sure why you chose the midwest as a qualifier here - out of all the cities you listed, only Omaha would be considered a midwestern city. Out of the 15 fastest growing cities according to the Census, almost none of them are in the midwest [1] (Only one really: Columbus). Admittedly it's over a short tim…

I mean, you could focus on whether the word "midwest" is accurate, or you could take my point that there is a reason why people are moving out of places like NYC in favor of less dense cities that don't smell like urine.
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