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U.S. Changes Visa Process for High-Skilled Workers

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Re: U.S. Changes Visa Process for High-Skilled Workers

#521

Post by mbrumlow »

itsfun10213123 wrote: post #442
joshe wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the section where they acknowledge that, yes, people lose jobs to immigrants. They go on to say that actually more people gain jobs at higher wages because of immigrants. There's a section on high tech jobs to read too, take a look. Most people believe that immigrants generally lower wages and take jobs. They almost never do. Economists who have done hundreds of studies on different wage markets have found tha…

>Economists who have done hundreds of studies on different wage markets have found that immigrants create more jobs and raise wages in most cases. Except of course the low skilled jobs that the immigrants are now doing. Those jobs see decreased wages. Seriously why do you think companies are hiring them if there were no economic gains and in the end they have to pay more to workers? They might not take jobs overall b…

> Seriously why do you think companies are hiring them if there were no economic gains and in the end they have to pay more to workers?

THIS!

Re: U.S. Changes Visa Process for High-Skilled Workers

#522

Post by aeontech »

luckydata wrote: post #299
aeontech wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Qualified supply is nowhere close to matching demand. Ask anyone that has to do recruiting for their teams. Source: personal experience

That's nonsense. As an industry we have an enormous age and gender bias. I know plenty of older folks that are great software engineers and can't find work because nobody will give them a chance to interview. here for some actual facts: https://archives.cjr.org/reports/what_scientist_shortage.php

Yeah, it's true about the hiring biases in general.

Where are they looking? Have you shown them "Who's hiring" HN threads?

Re: U.S. Changes Visa Process for High-Skilled Workers

#523

Post by thecommentary »

winter_blue wrote: post #488
joshe wrote: post #94

I've worked with a few H1-B holders in Silicon Valley and they're awesome. A great improvement would be to allow H1B holders to change jobs easily (maybe after a year). It's too easy for them to get stuck in not great situations. It would be great for everyone if they could move to better fitting jobs, especially for startups who have trouble running H1-B programs. If you are, like me, a software engineer, you should…

Thank you for your comment , joshe, and for being a small light in the darkness. There's so much hatred in here. I'm on an H-1B, and I've never worked for a low-paying or shitty company, and I've been very well-paid. At my last company, I was the highest paid person in my team. And, I've on one occasion made over $200,000 in a single year. I've never met one of underpaid immigrant engineers. Every immigrant I've know…

[dead]

Re: U.S. Changes Visa Process for High-Skilled Workers

#524

Post by [deleted] »

lordnacho wrote: post #379
myegorov wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By way of a thought experiment: If all human beings are equal, is this a necessary and sufficient condition to let a homeless person stay with you for a night? Assuming this is an option for a relative or friend. Why not willingly give up your job now? Surely someone can lay claim to your job on some merit basis. If you have children, do you distribute your time and affection in proportion to merit? I don't see why I…

> I don't see why I should give up my hard won comfort -- won collectively by my ancestors, neighbors, compatriots, myself -- to strangers. It's natural to accord special status to yourself, then to some close kin, ..., then to fellow citizens, then to the rest of humanity. This reminds me of a conversation I had with a colleague once. Basically he was making the argument that people work hard to pass on something to…

[deleted]

Re: U.S. Changes Visa Process for High-Skilled Workers

#525

Post by mbrumlow »

zjaffee wrote: post #209
maximente wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i'm sorry but this comment reads like a puff piece. the red flag for me was when you simultaneously claimed that economics is complicated and then almost immediately... make an economic claim? look, i get that you want to signal positive sentiment towards immigrants. that's great. but it's not at all clear what you're saying is true - one would need to factor in inflation, minimum wage growth, purchasing power, and t…

Except it's not true that the US education system isn't producing enough educated prospective software engineers, the deficiency is entirely people at the higher levels. The predicted job growth by the BLS over the next ten years is very close if not equal to the number of people getting bachelor's degree in computer science. This doesn't include boot camp graduates or people who are returning to get a master's, nor…

> Except it's not true that the US education system isn't producing enough educated prospective software engineers.

Says who? The same people pushing for H1B?

We all know how this works. They tailor a job description that only could be met by a H1B. Any native interviewed is either slotted not under qualified or over qualified.

Even if you still want to argue that the solution is not more H1B, its less H1B. You force the companies to dump money into the local schooling systems to ensure they are producing the workers they need.

Allowing them to game the system and hire H1B means they have no incentive to ensure our school systems are producing the workers they will need.

Re: U.S. Changes Visa Process for High-Skilled Workers

#526

Post by mediaman »

tobltobs wrote: post #374
pasabagi wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>any increase in productivity is bad because it reduces labor scarcity Isn't it? Increases in productivity, normally called automation, must reduce labour scarcity unless demand for the product is proportionately increased. There are plenty of sectors where this is exactly what happens, and some where it isn't.

> Increases in productivity, normally called automation That is a wrong assumption to start with. Inventing the wheel wasn't automation.

Inventing the wheel absolutely is automation.

Why would the wheel, which allows the movement of goods with much less labor, be any different in concept than the transistor, which allows e.g. the accounting of a corporation to be done with far fewer accountants?

Or the assembly of a car with robots?

All productivity gains (expressed as production per person-hour) is a result of either (1) advancement in technology or (2) the increased use of existing technology through capital investment or (3) quality of labor (education, training, etc).

The invention of the wheel, the invention of fire, the invention of the steam engine, and the gas engine, the solar cell and the transistor all fall under (1) and the expansion of their use falls under (2).

Re: U.S. Changes Visa Process for High-Skilled Workers

#527

Post by acdha »

austincheney wrote: post #360
acdha wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at it from the other direction: large companies have fought giving H1-B workers better protections. They wouldn’t be doing that if they weren’t profiting from workers with less negotiating ability. That’s also my position: don’t ban them, give them flexibility to switch jobs like everyone else so companies can’t hold the threat of deportation over them if they want a better deal.

You replied to a comment arguing against positions made from speculation without data by supplying more speculation without data.

There's some data out there but it's also hard to compare reliably since you need to account for differences in skill level when comparing salaries.

My point was that the large companies which have the best data, and whole teams of people doing the math on this issue, have consistently fought to preserve the old ways of doing it and since they're for-profit corporations it seems unlikely that they're doing this for any reason other than the econ 101 explanation that they profit from workers who can't negotiate as well.

Re: U.S. Changes Visa Process for High-Skilled Workers

#528

Post by thecommentary »

myegorov wrote: post #294
devereaux wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude, just … no. It's not about signaling or positive sentiments. All human beings are equal. Being born in one place doesn't make you special or entitles you to a job. US citizen or whatever-country citizen, all that matters is what you can do. Meritocracy, you know. If someone else can do the job better than you or me, they should be hired. Being born in the US or gender or anything else you can think about shouldn…

By way of a thought experiment: If all human beings are equal, is this a necessary and sufficient condition to let a homeless person stay with you for a night? Assuming this is an option for a relative or friend. Why not willingly give up your job now? Surely someone can lay claim to your job on some merit basis. If you have children, do you distribute your time and affection in proportion to merit? I don't see why I…

It's very telling that your critics here refuse to engage with the first half of your argument, if they attempt to engage at all.

Re: U.S. Changes Visa Process for High-Skilled Workers

#529

Post by Kephael »

sonabinu wrote: post #515
luckydata wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you stopped for a second to consider WHY? Maybe getting a PhD in the US is a huge waste of time because there's fierce competition for most academic jobs and scarce employment prospects?

a PhD in CS is a golden ticket today

A PhD in CS is a waste of time in the vast majority of cases. If you're good you can join FAANG out of undergrad and you'll earn well over a million dollars pre-tax by the time the PhD would be finished.

Re: U.S. Changes Visa Process for High-Skilled Workers

#530

Post by mbrumlow »

devereaux wrote: post #205
maximente wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i'm sorry but this comment reads like a puff piece. the red flag for me was when you simultaneously claimed that economics is complicated and then almost immediately... make an economic claim? look, i get that you want to signal positive sentiment towards immigrants. that's great. but it's not at all clear what you're saying is true - one would need to factor in inflation, minimum wage growth, purchasing power, and t…

Dude, just … no. It's not about signaling or positive sentiments. All human beings are equal. Being born in one place doesn't make you special or entitles you to a job. US citizen or whatever-country citizen, all that matters is what you can do. Meritocracy, you know. If someone else can do the job better than you or me, they should be hired. Being born in the US or gender or anything else you can think about shouldn…

> Being born in one place doesn't make you special or entitles you to a job.

Um, in some continues it is. But then I have to ask why have countries at all if being born in a country gains you nothing?

While I see your point I can't help to have a hard time with it. Mostly because you fail to see how detrimental to the country it is when its citizens can't get jobs because they are competing with the res of the world, who don't follow the same rules.

We have countries for a reason. And if the vast majority of people in a country feel they should not have to compete on a world platform for a local job then that seems fair to me.

Lets also talk about numbers. Given there is ~400 million in the US, And ~7 billion people in the rest of the world. It is almost statistically given that we could replace every American citizen worker with a better skilled worker with a non-citizen worker. So I ask again, is that what we want to do? What will that mean for the notion of the US as a country? Why have a country at all?

Why have a country at all? Well right now because other countries will continue to be countries and want to be countries, and they don't all play by the same rules. It might be different if we all played by the same rules but right now it seems like the US is being gamed by everybody else.

But anyways, it matters what country you are born in, and that does grant you some rights that others in other countries were born in don't have. Otherwise we would not even be having this discussion.

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