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Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash

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Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash

#521

Post by rayiner »

buvanshak wrote: post #481
pstuart wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of people die right now because they just got a text or they had no other way home from the bar, etc. The human toll is absolutely relevant to the conversation: this is about people dying now and in the future. It seems cruel to discuss it in a "I'll sacrifice X to save Y" later, but it can reasonably be reduced to that. I think it's safe to assume that this will drastically reduce driving related injuries and…

>I think it's safe to assume that this will drastically reduce driving related injuries and deaths. This assumes that the self driving tech will continue to increase in competence and will at some point surpass humans. I somehow find that extremely optimistic, bordering in on being naive. Consider something like OCR or object recognition alone, where similar tech is applied. Even with decades of research behind it, i…

Or speech recognition or even speech synthesis. We’ve been working on speech recognition for decades now and Siri is still nearly useless.

Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash

#522

Post by buvanshak »

pstuart wrote: post #500
buvanshak wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I think it's safe to assume that this will drastically reduce driving related injuries and deaths. This assumes that the self driving tech will continue to increase in competence and will at some point surpass humans. I somehow find that extremely optimistic, bordering in on being naive. Consider something like OCR or object recognition alone, where similar tech is applied. Even with decades of research behind it, i…

It is optimistic. Is it naive? Only in the sense that I don't do development in that realm and I can only base my assessment on what's publicly discussed. Please note that I artfully omitted a due date on my assumption. There's so much money involved here and so much initial traction that it is indeed reasonable to think that tech can surpass a "normal" driver. I'm also biased against human drivers, plenty of whom sh…

>There's so much money involved here and so much initial traction that it is indeed reasonable to think that tech can surpass a "normal" driver.

I don't think it is reasonable at all to reach that conclusion based on the money involved...You just can't force progress/breakthrough just by throwing money at all problem..

>I'm also biased against human drivers, plenty of whom should not be behind the wheel.

So I think it would be quite trivial to drastically increase the punishment of dangerous practices if caught. I mean, suspend license or ban for life if you are caught texting while driving or drunk driving.

Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash

#523

Post by buvanshak »

kolpa wrote: post #506
buvanshak wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but have the computers learning through that constant, immediate feedback. I don't know what is stopping them from simulating everything inside a computer. Record the input from all the sensors when a car equipped sensors is driven through real roads by a human driver. Replay the sensor input, with enough random variations and let the algorithms train on it. Continue adding to the library of sensor data by making th…

>I don't know what is stopping them from simulating everything inside a computer. Obviously they've already tried that, and it doesn't work. The map is not the territory. In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.

Not following you here. What do you mean by "The map is not the territory."..

What I mean is that. Do not "teach" the thing in real time. Instead collect the sensor data from the cars a human is driving (and also collect the human input also), and train the thing on it, safely inside the lab.

You say, they have done it already. But I am asking if they have done it enough. And if that is so, how come the accidents such as these are possible, when the situation is pretty out of a text book in basic driving?

Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash

#524

Post by [deleted] »

Ryudas wrote: post #247
Dwolb wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla need to stop calling it 'Autopilot'. The name implies drivers don't need to drive and is most likely a big reason drivers are lured into a false sense of security.

I find this argument so often. Autopilot has never been a term for autonomous, just as its used in aviation. Just because people don't know the proper term or have an erroneous idea of the term, doesn't mean tesla has to have the burden of people misinterpreting what it says.

[deleted]

Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash

#525

Post by paulcole »

fipple wrote: post #513
paulcole wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty bold to think you could singlehandedly wirte a release for Tesla. Feels like the communications equivalent of Dropbox is a weekend project. Just curious, what’s your writing background?

Except... he actually wrote it. It’s like if someone said Dropbox is a weekend project and then it was available for download the next Monday.

It'd be more like releasing a clone of Dropbox called "Dropbox for Backing Up Files" that made your files public and gave your credit card info to Russian hackers.

Sure it might look neat to someone on the outside but it wouldn't take long to see it's nothing like the real thing made by someone who knows what they're doing.

Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash

#526

Post by Matheus28 »

LoSboccacc wrote: post #421
greglindahl wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The driver was required to remain alert.

the car should stop itself to the emergency lane then when user disengagement is detected.

That's a very naive comment. What if there's no emergency lane? Should it just crash towards whatever is on the right side of the car? :)

Tesla's autopilot already slows down then stops moving if the user doesn't touch the steering wheel for a period time, but it gives plenty of warning to the user before that happens, as it should be.

Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash

#527

Post by ScottBurson »

BeetleB wrote: post #87
tshannon wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See my comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16814565 Doesn't your statement admit that Tesla is at least partially at fault? Something their lawyers would probably never allow.

>Doesn't your statement admit that Tesla is at least partially at fault? Something their lawyers would probably never allow. IANAL so take with a grain of salt. I once talked to a lawyer who used to work for a big hospital and handled the malpractice lawsuits against them. Three takeaways from the discussion: 1. Implying that a possibility exists that the hospital was at fault has no legal ramifications whatsoever. 2…

Fascinating. Did he explain #3?

Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash

#528

Post by BRAlNlAC »

Bizarro wrote: post #400
almost_usual wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you exit the self driving private road to enter a public road where there are still local residents who insist on driving their own vehicle. Some of these residents have never been to location X and have no interest in it. They care about their neighborhood and getting around however they want. The point is driving is a freedom and getting rid of it in this country will be hard. I'd imagine self driving vehicles h…

You'll see municipalities and then states banning cars starting off using soft incentive based approaches, then harder approaches once enough people switch over. Many states (red) won't ban them for a very long time. the impact on freedom to travel will have to be secured and decentralized without any government kill switches.

You'll see municipalities and then states banning cars

Which states? Maybe a few in New England, but I don't see that happening anywhere else. Counties perhaps, but there are rural areas pretty much everywhere, and people are going to want the freedom to drive their own vehicle.

Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash

#529

Post by euyyn »

otalp wrote: post #2

Full statement: "We are very sorry for the family's loss. According to the family, Mr. Huang was well aware that Autopilot was not perfect and, specifically, he told them it was not reliable in that exact location, yet he nonetheless engaged Autopilot at that location. The crash happened on a clear day with several hundred feet of visibility ahead, which means that the only way for this accident to have occurred is i…

> means that the only way for this accident to have occurred is if Mr. Huang was not paying attention to the road

I think anyone that's ever developed software knows how naive (to be charitative) that reasoning is.

Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash

#530

Post by intended »

fapjacks wrote: post #155
patcheudor wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>t's a tool to help attentive drivers avoid accidents that might have otherwise occurred. This needs far more discussion. I just don't buy it. I don't believe that you can have a car engaged in auto-drive mode and remain attentive. I think our psychology won't allow it. When driving, I find that I must be engaged and on long trips I don't even enable cruise control because taking the accelerator input away from me is…

I have to preface my post to say that I think developing self-driving automobiles is so important that it's worth the implied cost of potentially tens of thousands of lives in order to perfect the technology, because that's what people do; make sacrifices to improve the world we live in so that future generations don't have to know the same problem. But I think you're right. I think the "best" way to move forward unt…

Its not going to happen.

Peopl I’ve said it before, and I’ll repeat it till eventually the tide turns on HN and elsewhere.

You will not have full autonomy unless you control the road itself.

At which point you are better off just making it mass transit.

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