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Relicensing React, Jest, Flow, and Immutable.js

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Re: Relicensing React, Jest, Flow, and Immutable.js

#521

Post by paulddraper »

spenczar5 wrote: post #144
kelnos wrote: post #71

So... I guess I still don't understand what was wrong with BSD+Patents. I get that there's legal uncertainty: I can imagine some companies, especially larger ones, not wanting to give up their patent-suit option just because one random small team in their org is using React. And barriers to adoption aren't a great idea when one of your goals is wide adoption. Overall, though, I think making it much harder to file pat…

The current state of things is that patents are stockpiled as deterrents, kind of like nuclear weapons. All of the big companies know that if they sued one another over some patent claim, the other side would retaliate, and it would be a big mess with no real winners. Facebook's patent clause disarms all their opponents, but leaves them free to attack. It's actually a wildly aggressive, offensive weapon, surprisingly…

Hasn't that already happened?

Oracle v. Google?

Re: Relicensing React, Jest, Flow, and Immutable.js

#522

Post by CydeWeys »

epicide wrote: post #517
CydeWeys wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WordPress runs 25% of all websites. That is huge. You're trying to trivialize it as being "just one project" when it's really one of the most widely used and significant projects out there. One decision that WordPress makes is worth tens of thousands of decisions from much smaller projects that aren't used very widely. WordPress is a many billion dollar a year industry in itself, and whether it uses React or not will…

You are trivializing the difference between "using" and "choosing". One is transitive, the other is not.

I'm saying that it doesn't much matter. WordPress is the largest player in the web platform ecosystem. The choices they make have huge consequences. Them choosing to use one library over another directly contributes to thousands of more developers using that library. The choice doesn't need to be transitive because developers using the platform don't have a choice of library -- they go along with whatever the platform people are using.

Re: Relicensing React, Jest, Flow, and Immutable.js

#523

Post by blktiger »

ec109685 wrote: post #512
blktiger wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just big companies necessarily either. Say you are a small startup working on something really innovative and you have a patent on part of your work. Facebook decides to build something similar, violating your patents in the process, and they are going to put you out of business. If one of your core technologies is react under the BSD + Patents license, then you are screwed. You can't sue to save your busine…

Why would you immediately have to recall your software? Facebook would have to have counter sued you for some hypothetical patent they have for React first and “recall all your software” would have had to be the court ordered remedy.

True, they would have to counter-sue but you don't think they would in that situation? Technically your license is invalid and if you have _shipped_ software to customers that is violating the license is it not?

Re: Relicensing React, Jest, Flow, and Immutable.js

#524

Post by ng12 »

CydeWeys wrote: post #522
epicide wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are trivializing the difference between "using" and "choosing". One is transitive, the other is not.

I'm saying that it doesn't much matter. WordPress is the largest player in the web platform ecosystem. The choices they make have huge consequences. Them choosing to use one library over another directly contributes to thousands of more developers using that library. The choice doesn't need to be transitive because developers using the platform don't have a choice of library -- they go along with whatever the platfor…

Nobody is disagreeing with you, you're just talking about something different than everyone else in this thread.

Re: Relicensing React, Jest, Flow, and Immutable.js

#525

Post by aub3bhat »

apaszke wrote: post #510
aub3bhat wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PyTorch itself isnt, But the multi-GPU version requires Gloo which is BSD+PATENTS https://github.com/facebookincubator/gloo/blob/master/PATENT...

PyTorch uses NVIDIA NCCL for multi-GPU communication (under BSD license). Gloo is only one of the three backends that can be used for distributed communication out of the box.

Thanks!

Re: Relicensing React, Jest, Flow, and Immutable.js

#526

Post by ec109685 »

mcbits wrote: post #515
ec109685 wrote: post #514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your interpretation is wrong. RedHat’s promise is revoked if you sue them for any patent infringement: >Our Promise also does not extend to the actions of a party (including past actions) if at any time the party or its affiliate asserts a patent in proceedings against Red Hat (or its affiliate) or any offering of Red Hat (or its affiliate) (including a cross-claim or counterclaim). So RedHat can hypothetically use a…

Yeah, I mentioned that above: "unless you sue them first." That's not a major difference from Facebook's terms.

The how are Facebook and RedHat different?

Re: Relicensing React, Jest, Flow, and Immutable.js

#527

Post by ec109685 »

blktiger wrote: post #523
ec109685 wrote: post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you immediately have to recall your software? Facebook would have to have counter sued you for some hypothetical patent they have for React first and “recall all your software” would have had to be the court ordered remedy.

True, they would have to counter-sue but you don't think they would in that situation? Technically your license is invalid and if you have _shipped_ software to customers that is violating the license is it not?

Suing Facebook does not invalidate your license to use their software and source code. The BSD license still applies after you sue Facebook. It can’t be taken away.

Re: Relicensing React, Jest, Flow, and Immutable.js

#528

Post by mcbits »

ec109685 wrote: post #526
mcbits wrote: post #515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I mentioned that above: "unless you sue them first." That's not a major difference from Facebook's terms.

The how are Facebook and RedHat different?

To rephrase again... regarding patents, assuming you don't first sue RedHat or Facebook, then:

RedHat won't sue you over your FOSS project that infringes any of RedHat patents, but your proprietary software is fair game.

Facebook won't sue you for infringement caused by using one of their libraries in your software (FOSS or not), but your independent project (FOSS or not) that infringes any Facebook patent is fair game.

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