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European Commission fines Google €2.42B for abusing dominance

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Re: European Commission fines Google €2.42B for abusing dominance

#521

Post by wstrange »

trevos wrote: post #322

Google's dominance is so complete that for years even their top browser competitor, Firefox, came preset to use an omnibox with Google as the default search engine, meaning that everything one typed into the browser was sent to Google, even if not actually a Google search. This integration with Google is pervasive in Firefox; there are dozens of settings built into the browser that send information to various Google…

Firefox defaulted to Google search because they got paid a ton of money to do so.

Re: European Commission fines Google €2.42B for abusing dominance

#522

Post by erk__ »

stickfigure wrote: post #433
zdkl wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a consumer, I have (much) more trust that my interests are advanced by the EU than google. This is an opinion which I don't feel the need to convert anyone to but I really don't understand the opposite view. Can someone explain why they believe google and other "emerging" power centers saveguard their interests better than the EU?

As a consumer, I have (much) more trust that my interests are advanced by the EU than google. The same people that brought you that idiotic cookies warning?

And the same people that are removing it.

Re: European Commission fines Google €2.42B for abusing dominance

#523

Post by erk__ »

stickfigure wrote: post #433
zdkl wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a consumer, I have (much) more trust that my interests are advanced by the EU than google. This is an opinion which I don't feel the need to convert anyone to but I really don't understand the opposite view. Can someone explain why they believe google and other "emerging" power centers saveguard their interests better than the EU?

As a consumer, I have (much) more trust that my interests are advanced by the EU than google. The same people that brought you that idiotic cookies warning?

And the same people that are removing it.

Re: European Commission fines Google €2.42B for abusing dominance

#524

Post by sbov »

jabv wrote: post #317
bjl wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once you gain a certain amount of market share you no longer have the right to engage in certain kinds of anti-competitive actions. There's nothing extreme about that; the laws have been in place for over a century.

"It is generally conceded in our age that a critically strategic producer has an obligation to the public for the sake of the common good." And what happens if Google says, "f * it, we're not providing a utility, we're not taking traffic from European IPs anymore"? I am no anarcho-capitalist, but I really think more folks should read Atlas Shrugged.

Even if Google did this, and got past the shareholder lawsuits, what would happen?

Nothing much. Someone else would step in. Greed and free markets makes the "Atlas Shrugged" scenario nonsense. I'm sure there are millions of smart people who would love it if all the other smart people stopped producing. All it means is more market share for them.

I'm guessing you're posting this as someone who is fully sucked into the Google ecosystem. I was too. But the only Google product I use anymore is Google maps. No more email, no more search, no more android.

Google is very far from indispensable.

Re: European Commission fines Google €2.42B for abusing dominance

#525

Post by joveian »

tokenizerrr wrote: post #209
devoply wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay say that this is true, then if you want any sort of decent user experience you MUST let Google track you and analyze your behavior. So many ways for Google to win. So many ways for the user to lose. I do run a bunch of stuff on my Firefox to prevent that, perhaps that's a reasonable explanation as to why. Google owns the server, Google owns the client, Google owns DNS, Google owns domains, Google even owns > 50%…

Yes that is pretty much the entire idea. If you don't let them track you, they don't have a reasonable assurance that you're a real legit non-malicious human being. So you get to fill out the actual captcha. Pretty sweet deal, yeah? 99% of the population gets an easy checkbox, and all the people who care just need to fill out some questions to prove they're not a bot. It's not like you're blocked from using the form.

It isn't always a "just fill out some questions" issue; some of the captas they show are essentially impossible for humans. The one Google service I can't avoid (well, maps also but I can't reember a problem there) is Google Scholar and I occasionally get the almost impossible captchas there (I think I got one out of at least six I tried on different occasions). Logging in avoids the issue (and tends to fix it for a while without logging in... I think an IP address range thing in my case).

The worst part is when you need to prove to Google who you are when already logged in to a (non-Google) online store that you have purchased from previously. That is just rediculous and seems to be getting more common. At least those are not impossible, but still. I do not know if Google has anything to do with promoting that use but if they do they should be held responsible for that (as well as the businesses that use such things).

Re: European Commission fines Google €2.42B for abusing dominance

#526

Post by sireat »

dustinmoris wrote: post #125

Someone said once something which really describes this well: The EU hasn't contributed ANYTHING to the internet, but they are the ones who want to regulate it the most. :(

You might be familiar with https://home.cern/ and one of its 1980s employees/contractors https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Berners-Lee

So while one could very well argue that it was a happy accident, it would not be very wise to argue that EU has not contributed ANYTHING to internet.

Re: European Commission fines Google €2.42B for abusing dominance

#527

Post by omnimus »

It might be very hard for business minded rich hacker news crowd to swallow but i think many EU citizens believe in regulations. It is not like US.

On one hand google can do whatever they want because its their service and they don't force anyone to go there.

On the other hand they have big monopoly so people can't really go anywhere else (they don't know better) - they are not really paying taxes in most of the EU countries and many times don't even comply with local laws because EU is just one big thing for them - not individual states.

Let's not forget it is Google who is playing on EU ballpark - not the other way around.

By the way - does anyone still believe that Google / Facebook or even the Internet are not utility? It seems it a lot like water/electricity/roads but for information.

Re: European Commission fines Google €2.42B for abusing dominance

#528

Post by lossolo »

throwaway2016a wrote: post #275

I might be in a minority here and I'll probably get down voted but this result scares me... and I used to be CTO one of those competing price comparison sites that show up lower in the results so if anyone should agree it should be me. While it made me angry when Google put their results above ours, I never questioned that they had a right to do that. It is their website. They are not a utility. At what point does a…

> While it made me angry when Google put their results above ours, I never questioned that they had a right to do that. It is their website.

Then, if in future, lets say Google will be the only search engine that is still alive and used by 99% users and Google will choose to get your site/business out of their site/search results (based on what you wrote - it's their website so they can do whatever they want) it will be fine also?

People writing things like this really should read why anti trust laws were introduced in the first place.

Article 102 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union (TFEU) and Article 54 of the EEA Agreement prohibit abuse of a dominant position.

Being able to dominate one market enables you possibilities to dominate other markets as well by abusing your dominant position.

Re: European Commission fines Google €2.42B for abusing dominance

#529

Post by tripzilch »

MarkMc wrote: post #207

The thing is, Google is not just a search engine - it's also a command line interpreter. When I type "translate goodnight to french" or "coca cola stock price" I don't want a list of web pages - I want a single, authorative answer.

Well IMO, with authority comes even more responsibility than market dominance.

Re: European Commission fines Google €2.42B for abusing dominance

#530

Post by tripzilch »

interfixus wrote: post #49

Please enlighten me: What kind of monopoly would that be? Much as I detest an awful lot of Google, I have never once been - and know of noone else who has ever been - forced to use their search against my will. In fact, I get along fine without it, as well as without their analytics and their browser and their cloud stuff, excepting of course that I am often forced to correspond with gmail addresses.

> I have never once been - and know of noone else who has ever been - forced to use their search against my will

Well I've seen Google's voice search trigger against people's will on many occasions ;)

I know that wasn't your point, though.

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