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Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

nytimes.com

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Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#511

Post by KVFinn »

Patrick_Devine wrote: post #47
nhf wrote: post #10

I think this was the right thing to do from a PR perspective. Having Steve back as the new CEO will definitely be good for the community. I also applaud Reddit's announcement for calling the community out on their childish BS: > As a closing note, it was sickening to see some of the things redditors wrote about Ellen. [1] The reduction in compassion that happens when we’re all behind computer screens is not good for…

As an occasional user of reddit, this whole ordeal has confirmed the reason why I prefer not to hang out in its forums. I have no idea whether Ellen was a capable CEO, but the vitriol which I kept seeing peripherally (through other news articles and here on HN) was absolutely appalling.

>As an occasional user of reddit, this whole ordeal has confirmed the reason why I prefer not to hang out in its forums.

It's really been awful and hard to avoid. I saw more racism on reddit in a couple few weeks (while the police shootings were in the news) than I've seen in the rest of my life combined. That and the increasingly popular /fatpeoplehate and I was pretty close to never visiting even the small well-moderated subs, the leakage was too strong.

And this recent thing, where there have been days where 5 of the top 10 highest voted stories across the entire site were literally titled: "Ellen Pao is a cunt"

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#512

Post by AnkhMorporkian »

magicalist wrote: post #472
AnkhMorporkian wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, there's more to it. Because I don't want to drag her personal life into it (which does play a role), there were the huge problems with the AMA app, the new privacy policy (which while I agreed with, many didnt), Reddit Notes (the reddit cryptocurrency; perhaps the most jaw-droppingly stupid move in her tenure), and really, many more things.

What you're describing are basically non-events in the history of bad decisions made at reddit (and like half of them come from Yishan's tenure, anyways). And reddit survived just fine every time, mind you. There really wasn't anything overly egregious here except an angry internet mob. If it weren't for the subreddit blackout (which, again, was from an issue boiling over for years) timed so soon after the FPH shutdo…

She was the CEO, she ultimately bore responsibility for every single decision made in her tenure. Regardless if initiatives were started under a previous CEO, she allowed bad decisions to be made public in her tenure where she had the power to stop them.

Like it or not, the CEO is ultimately responsible for every single thing a company does. That's pretty much their job.

Edit: Also, I have been on reddit for nearly 10 years. I've followed every stupid decision made since comments were implemented. I have never seen a period of bad decisions like this before Pao.

Edit 2: I also think it's sort of shitty for you to move the goalposts. You basically said "there's nothing else major" about Pao to criticize. As soon as I brought up three more things to criticize - well, they weren't important and everyone else is responsible.

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#513

Post by rocky1138 »

We keep hearing over and over again about how it's a small minority of vocal people who spew vitriol in any community, but how about providing some real, hard data?

Reddit has enough data and skill to identify approximately the percetage of users who engaged in this type of behaviour at the very least.

I'd rather see the numbers myself than read a press release simply stating something and being asked to believe it.

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#514

Post by LordHumungous »

Patrick_Devine wrote: post #47
nhf wrote: post #10

I think this was the right thing to do from a PR perspective. Having Steve back as the new CEO will definitely be good for the community. I also applaud Reddit's announcement for calling the community out on their childish BS: > As a closing note, it was sickening to see some of the things redditors wrote about Ellen. [1] The reduction in compassion that happens when we’re all behind computer screens is not good for…

As an occasional user of reddit, this whole ordeal has confirmed the reason why I prefer not to hang out in its forums. I have no idea whether Ellen was a capable CEO, but the vitriol which I kept seeing peripherally (through other news articles and here on HN) was absolutely appalling.

Hanging out on Reddit has made me understand and appreciate Linus Torvald's style of community management.

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#515

Post by blhack »

morbius wrote: post #463
generic_user wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most disgusting posting I have seen is by our good friends the yellow journalists trying to weave there 'Reddit is misogynist' narrative. While Redditors are upset that Pao fires perhaps the most competent and well liked woman working at Reddit. Urinalism is largely discredited at this point due to there bias and agenda.

Victoria was beloved despite the fact she was a woman, not necessarily because of it. I understand what you're trying to say, but it doesn't really hold up.

Should somebody be like because of their gender? Isn't that outrageously sexist?

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#516

Post by axlprose »

magicalist wrote: post #492
axlprose wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This was a pretty minor story even in the tech blogs, let alone major news outlets. This is currently the #1 post on HN. It might not be the biggest community, but it is influential, and many people bypass visiting blogs/sites and come directly here for their news. Things don't have to be on the front page of Time magazine to leave an impact on interested communities. And here, clearly people are interested enough…

> It might not be the biggest community, but it is influential, and many people bypass visiting blogs/sites and come directly here for their news. So then what does this have to do with "questioning ethics in any kind of journalism"?? I am a commenter on HN and a redditor and am in no way related to the "clickbait media", so how are my contributions to this thread "explained through the lens of questionable media"? T…

> I am a commenter on HN and a redditor and am in no way related to the "clickbait media", so how are my contributions to this thread "explained through the lens of questionable media"?

Herein lies the problem: there is increasingly less of a difference between you or I, some "random strangers on the internet", and 'trusted' news sources like the New York Times. So it's not so much that we're not related to the 'clickbait' media, it's that the media is now mirroring us, unfiltered, and many don't realize that this is basically the modern MO of 'news reporting'. The lines are blurring as a side effect of the influence social media has, that's the danger.

> It started as a discussion about the actual situation, but apparently "everyone needs to be much more sceptical about what they read in the press and there motivations", and is now about...biased HN posts? I really have no idea.

Yeah, I agree. It's certainly hard to follow, but we are on a platform that makes misinformation incredibly easy to produce. Technology is unfortunately a double-edged sword like that.

> If you were worried about that, you should have discussed the actual situation and addressed what you thought were misrepresentations, not going off on some tangent about media ethics

I agree, it would be nice, but at this point it'd be like playing whack-a-mole, with changing definitions of what it means to be a 'mole'. It's unfortunate, but it'd be pretty difficult to keep up with every possible distortion even if we tried, so the best I can do is just remind people that "hey, even when I'm not around to remind you, you should probably try to question things that you believe and might've picked up from somewhere".

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#517

Post by Uhhrrr »

killface wrote: post #502
Uhhrrr wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very much like GamerGate. There is an attempt to deflect an overwhelming amount of legitimate criticism by pointing to a few trolls and characterizing all of it as "racist and misogynist".

Exactly. They seem to forget that she's part of a ponzi scheme, slept with married men to get ahead, etc. Even if it was a bunch of racist/misogynist people, you have to consider that despite the messenger, the message might be valid. That's what being open-minded means.

I don't even think people care about that stuff. The interesting accounting is on her husband's plate. The KP stuff only affected things at Reddit when Reddit started to do funny things to stories about it.

Really, her Rampart-level impedance mismatch with the community was enough.

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#518

Post by vehementi »

fredkbloggs wrote: post #359
pnathan wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a lot of evil stuff spewing about relating to Ms. Pao. It was pretty sad, and those people should feel ashamed of saying those things about anyone. On the other hand, I don't think that she did a very good job managing the crisis (the first one caused by banning certain douchy subreddits, and the second one caused by the firing), which is one thing a CEO needs to be able to do.

Yeah, exactly. Also, firing someone without some kind of plan for redistributing her duties is a Management 101 no-no. Ellen Pao failed as CEO of Reddit. That has nothing to do with the 1% or whatever of Reddit users who are racists and/or misogynists. That's just the real world; you have to get past the obnoxious idiots and focus on what matters. The reason Ms. Pao was fired (let's be honest) is that she failed to m…

Nevermind misogyny etc., you're pointing to two incidents of unknown magnitude (because you lack the data internal to the company) among an unknown number of other things she's handled and you claim she's failed as a CEO? That is ridiculously uninformed.

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#519

Post by LordHumungous »

pkorzeniewski wrote: post #32

“Ellen has done a phenomenal job, especially in the last few months,” he said. What exactly "phenomenal" has she done? Reddit works pretty much the same as it worked several years ago, but in the meantime she managed to piss off the majority of community, which is the only reason Reddit exists

Banning fph was a good start. "The community" is actually Reddit's number one problem. It has allowed a large contingent of hateful assholes to congregate there. If this continues the company has no future.

Re: Ellen Pao Is Stepping Down as Reddit’s Chief

#520

Post by dmfdmf »

WalterBright wrote: post #298
Patrick_Devine wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an occasional user of reddit, this whole ordeal has confirmed the reason why I prefer not to hang out in its forums. I have no idea whether Ellen was a capable CEO, but the vitriol which I kept seeing peripherally (through other news articles and here on HN) was absolutely appalling.

I'd rather have appalling speech than censored speech. The idea is to not confuse supporting a person's free speech with endorsing his views. Also, reddit is a private company and so is not obliged to provide a platform for anyone's free speech, that also is a facet of freedom.

At last, a voice of reason in hundreds of pointless comments.

Free speech is a principle and people should be free to say whatever they want no matter how disgusting or distasteful to the majority or mainstream. This is the ideal of a free society and people who can't make the distinction between supporting the principle and yet rejecting the advocates of idiocy are implicitly advocating some form of government censorship.

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