What I Didn't Say • Hacker News Board

Re: What I Didn't Say

#511

Post by ceejayoz » Tue, Dec 31, 2013, 1:29 PM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #287

ceejayoz wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Blind applications would be great if they were possible, but I suspect they would be as helpful as a blind audition for concert conductors -- i.e., not at all. While I agree that blind applications would be somewhat tough for startup founders, conducting seems like a bad example. You could fairly easily judge the resulting music without being able to see the conductor.

I'm going to assume you don't have a lot of familiarity with conducting. It often takes an entire season to rehearse with a group in order to produce music that could accurately be 'judged'. And a conductor is about far more than the music -- how is their rapport with the orchestra? What are they like to work with? What kind of an artistic vision do they have for the group, and how do they communicate that? Ultimatel…

Guest conductors are hardly unheard of, but you're right that it's not a perfect analogy. Still - it'd potentially make for a decent first go to narrow things down, I'd imagine.

Re: What I Didn't Say

#512

Post by tszyn » Tue, Dec 31, 2013, 1:34 PM UTC

hyperpape wrote: post #136

throwaway135 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be saying: since coding is a valuable activity, any group not coding is a waste. Is that correct?

Any group underrepresented in [valuable activity x]relative to its distribution of talent. You can theoretically have a distribution in which natural aptitude is equal, the distribution is skewed (more men than women) and it's not horribly inefficient, but I think if you spell out the assumptions of such a distribution, it's not especially realistic.

What if women are equal to men in coding aptitude, but simply don't want to code? Is that still a waste that we should do something about?

Re: What I Didn't Say

#513

Post by Retric » Tue, Dec 31, 2013, 1:48 PM UTC

ryguytilidie wrote: post #418

jsmthrowaway wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean like the cult-like reverence for the pseudo-intellectual issues commentary on Twitter and Medium? The people who have less than a decade in the industry but are experts on compensation, ocracies, power dynamics, and psychology? The ones who work at Silicon Valley startups and lecture the entire industry about how things work, then surround themselves with like-minded people to have strength in numbers? You a…

I don't mean to get in the way of your hyperbole, but the person above you seemed to have no objection to "respecting" pg, he was taking issue with this: "pg's response is actually priceless: it is like a soft-spoken witness upending a bullying lawyer who had just viciously attacked him, leaving the attacker reeling for all to see." Which you don't mention at all in your response... "If you're under 40, I'm largely u…

"largely uninterested in your take on the world" is far from "couldn't possibly add any value"

Now I am 33 and I tend to ignore what most people my age and younger think about things like global politics or new programming languages. This has less to do with intelligence than perspective. Basically, if the 'Arab Spring seemed like a new and good thing you don't know enough about the situation to make informed commentary.

Re: What I Didn't Say

#514

Post by skylan_q » Tue, Dec 31, 2013, 1:49 PM UTC

I stopped reading this partway through because PG doesn't really need to explain himself here. Don't attribute to malice what you can attribute to your own misunderstanding.

Re: What I Didn't Say

#515

Post by rmc » Tue, Dec 31, 2013, 1:54 PM UTC

nostromo wrote: post #165

ericabiz wrote: post #32

As a female founder, I think this is a well-thought-out, articulate response, and I appreciate pg stepping up to say something about women in tech. In a similar vein, I'd love to see YC take on one or both of the following: 1) Do at least one application cycle completely blind. How could you accomplish this? Much like in the concert auditions where this was first tried, put people behind a curtain--and then use techn…

Self-selection, as you have done, is a hard problem to solve. Not just in tech, but in our entire culture. As noted elsewhere, Americans are sorting themselves by demographics. It feels awkward to be a woman in a predominantly male organization. It feels awkward to be a republican in San Francisco. It feels awkward to be gay in Mississippi. It feels awkward to be black in Portland. And so we place ourselves in locati…

What's difficult about this problem is that it's nobody's fault. There's no conspiracy behind this trend.

Well, it's not really any one person's fault who set everything up. But we can change it. There are tools to undo the "death by a million cuts" that make it this way.

I would say that the people who don't do these things are partially at fault for not attempting to fix a broken system.

Re: What I Didn't Say

#516

Post by rmc » Tue, Dec 31, 2013, 1:57 PM UTC

dinkumthinkum wrote: post #408

MartinCron wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The last time I was hiring, I wished I could easily review resumes without seeing the names, email addresses, physical addresses, school names, or even telephone numbers as I felt that I was bringing in my arbitrary bias. Telephone numbers? I found that I identified a lot more with area code 206 than 425 or 253, just as I identify a lot more with an @gmail.com address than @hotmail.com or @aol.com.

Don't you think, though, if you have such arbitrary biases, it would be better to work on them than hide the problem?

But how would you do that? Hiding biasing factors is a simple, actionable approach. Do you have a better idea?

Re: What I Didn't Say

#517

Post by hyperpape » Tue, Dec 31, 2013, 2:00 PM UTC

tszyn wrote: post #512

hyperpape wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any group underrepresented in [valuable activity x]relative to its distribution of talent. You can theoretically have a distribution in which natural aptitude is equal, the distribution is skewed (more men than women) and it's not horribly inefficient, but I think if you spell out the assumptions of such a distribution, it's not especially realistic.

What if women are equal to men in coding aptitude, but simply don't want to code? Is that still a waste that we should do something about?

Depends on why. If it really is because regardless of what social expectations there are, women are just less interested, that's harmless. But I think it's obvious that with a look at history and present attitudes, we can't assume an observed difference in interest is neutral that way.

Re: What I Didn't Say

#518

Post by reledi » Tue, Dec 31, 2013, 2:11 PM UTC

brc wrote: post #401

ericabiz wrote: post #32

As a female founder, I think this is a well-thought-out, articulate response, and I appreciate pg stepping up to say something about women in tech. In a similar vein, I'd love to see YC take on one or both of the following: 1) Do at least one application cycle completely blind. How could you accomplish this? Much like in the concert auditions where this was first tried, put people behind a curtain--and then use techn…

This whole episode is the first time I have ever picked up on a gender discussion in relation to yc applications. The general feeling here seems to be that some type of affirmative action of quots needs to be applied. But there already is a quota - those with the most promising teams and ideas get to go. The last thing a successful female founder wants or needs is a quota or lower bar of entry for things like yc. Bec…

> The last thing a successful female founder wants or needs is a quota or lower bar of entry for things like yc.

I don't think anyone is arguing to lower the bar of entry for women in YC, instead (as far as I can tell) they are arguing for ways to increase the number of female applicants to YC.

Re: What I Didn't Say

#519

Post by jswinghammer » Tue, Dec 31, 2013, 2:27 PM UTC

mjburgess wrote: post #350

jswinghammer wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing he said is out of line with what a lot of classical liberals were saying throughout the 19th century and they were refining ideas that basically go back to Aristotle. If echoing their thoughts qualifies one to be a pseudo-intellectual then I'm going to guess in horror at what you consider to be genuine intellectual thought.

He isnt "echoing their thoughts" any one who has read Adam Smith systematically would know that the very first few lines of this are explicitly rejected by him. They're childish research-lite versions of a 50s-style classical liberalism. It is much the same as Ayn Rand another amateur philosopher who knew very little on the topics she was writing about. I dislike the "talking head" approach to serious topics. I dont…

And anyone who has done any serious reading of economics is well aware that Smith is hardly considered authoritative on any subject in economics. His only insights are almost word for word copies from Cantillon. I'm not the biggest fan of Rand but she's far from a joke. Her writings deserve to analyzed and taken as seriously as any other philosopher.

I don't know if PG is the right about everything he says or even most of what he says but he has inspired a lot of people to do things (largely for the good of society). A philosopher could hope for little more I suspect (not even suggesting PG would self-ascribe that term but I would ascribe it to him).

Re: What I Didn't Say

#520

Post by chrisgd » Tue, Dec 31, 2013, 2:28 PM UTC

dave_sid wrote: post #484

jsmthrowaway wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean like the cult-like reverence for the pseudo-intellectual issues commentary on Twitter and Medium? The people who have less than a decade in the industry but are experts on compensation, ocracies, power dynamics, and psychology? The ones who work at Silicon Valley startups and lecture the entire industry about how things work, then surround themselves with like-minded people to have strength in numbers? You a…

"The ones who work at Silicon Valley startups and lecture the entire industry about how things work, then surround themselves with like-minded people to have strength in numbers" - Love this... this phenomenon sounds so familiar in my job I really think it should have a name. Anyone know if it has a name?

the investment banking model