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XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

theguardian.com

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Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#511

Post by mpyne »

burntsushi wrote: post #491
mrt0mat0 wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so if that's the case, then it would seem that facebook, google, etc. are still lying? or could this be more gag order stuff?

No it would not... At this point, it seems quite feasible that Facebook, Google, et al., are telling the truth at least in some respect. The point is that there are TWO different forms of data collection: PRISM and XKeyscore. PRISM happens via court order and is what we've heard about primarily up until today. XKeyscore is a separate program and does not require the compliance of Google, Facebook, et al. In fact, it…

The ISPs might not have a choice either, thanks to CALEA.

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#512

Post by throow »

api wrote: post #376

I'm getting seriously irritated at the "I have nothing to hide" crowd. For starters, here are a few ways this can go horribly wrong: * Industrial espionage -- it's big business, and I'm sure it pays better than being an NSA analyst. * Foreign espionage -- since this gives unlimited querying power to every agent, a single "turned" agent could inflict massive damage on U.S. government and industry interests on behalf o…

I'm having the same problem as some other commenters here in that people don't seem to care about these hypothetical situations. They mostly trust the gov't to only track the "bad guys". Are there any good cases of the above-mentioned actually happening? Any other suggestions for responding to the nothing-to-hide argument?

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#513

Post by complexmango »

samstave wrote: post #485
deveac wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I feel that the programs the NSA employs are profound existential threats to our liberty and rights, I do agree with you on the balance that the human parts that make up the whole of these organizations fundamentally see themselves as benign and beneficial on the balance. I think it bears mentioning, and its worthwhile to keep this in mind while we do the necessary work of attempting to dismantle and remove a l…

The issue is that we need to demonize the people who are in fact evil and deliberately built this out and got it going. That list is surprisingly short: GHW Bush GW Bush D Cheney D Rumsfeld C Rice G Clapper G Alexander P Wolfowitz These are the guys that created the orders that the soldiers are following, and the war they are dying in for these criminal's profits.

Naive and unnecessary. The Patriot Act was overwhelmingly supported across the aisle. And it should be obvious by now that Obama is an enthusiastic supporter, based on his treatment of Snowden. Not to mention Pelosi and Feinstein aggressively defending the government's right to suppress information. This has nothing to do with party affiliation. If you believe in Republican Vs Democrat, you're still in the Matrix, and, sadly, sipping the koolaid.

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#514

Post by Daniel_Newby »

knowaveragejoe wrote: post #379
Daniel_Newby wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm a practically addicted news junkie ... More like a news sheep. The mass market news is and has always been 49% fluff and 49% lies. Comments from people who already knew what the NSA does are not "self aggrandizing". The are other-insulting. You should rightly be ashamed that you walk through life in a news fog of up-to-the-minute minutiae. Read books by retired insiders, talk to current insiders and contractors…

Wow, what a staggering misinterpretation of what the parent said.

Every time I post the truth about this NSA fiasco, I get:

1. Downvoted to oblivion by a hivemind, and

2. Somebody like you chimes in with a content-free emotional outburst.

So exactly what did I misunderstand?

The incontrovertible fact that this really isn't news?

The fact that every history and exposé on the NSA has been saying this for decades?

The fact that the NSA tried cramming the Clipper chip and key length restrictions down our throats to make domestic spying easier? For half a decade this was a weekly running joke on Slashdot that you had to have been living under a rock to miss.

That the previous commenter claimed to be a "news junky" and then admitted that by news he means the mass media—a pack of tampon salesmen and political hatchetmen.

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#515

Post by LoganCale »

s_q_b wrote: post #414
noonespecial wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The technical possibility isn't the new and staggering part, it's the profound lack of morality, respect for any ideal whatsoever, and compete apathy towards the oaths these people took to serve us . They have compeley misused the power we granted them in sacred trust. We should remove it from them at once. If this has become impossible, we need to know that as soon as we can.

> The technical possibility isn't the new and staggering part, it's the profound lack of morality, respect for any ideal whatsoever, and compete apathy towards the oaths these people took to serve us. Again, I'll chime in as the resident apologist. The people working at Fort Meade are not evil. They truly believe they're doing a great service to the nation. They may be wrong, and they've certainly thrown privacy out…

> The people working at Fort Meade are not evil. They truly believe they're doing a great service to the nation.

Evil doesn't require intent. Some of the most evil acts in history were carried out by people who believed they were doing a good and moral thing. Most evil people don't go around thinking "I'm going to be so evil today!"

I suspect you are correct and that the vast majority of NSA employees think they are doing the right thing for America. That doesn't make their actions any less evil.

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#516

Post by 0003 »

curbrusiasm wrote: post #445

This has been up here for 5 hours and on the Guardian's website for nearly 6 hours. How is it possible that not the NYTimes, FOX, NPR, the Washington Post, or CNN have picked this up? These organizations are an embarrassment to the profession of journalism.

Here is the newsdiff of today's NYT article on the disclosure of the declassified docs. [1] Talk about burying...

http://newsdiffs.org/diff/290704/290768/www.nytimes.com/2013...

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#517

Post by kevinnk »

ISL wrote: post #494
afterburner wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not American, so I'm wondering: was the public really actually behind the PATRIOT Act, or were they merely giving leeway in a time where everyone was supposed to go along? Or were you thinking that's the same thing? Same with the politicians; were they really for it, or simply incredibly afraid of the political suicide that would be the results of standing up against it? Because this was a time when people did no…

The public was behind doing something . Much of Congress didn't want to be seen as impeding something . It was obvious from the length of the act alone that even Congressional staffers couldn't have read it carefully between the time of submission and the time it passed. Quite a few people that I knew were weakly opposed, but the sunset provisions may have made it more palatable. It takes character to stand up and de…

>It was obvious from the length of the act alone that even Congressional staffers couldn't have read it carefully between the time of submission and the time it passed.

This is a little off topic, but I always see this trotted out when people talk about big laws (like Obamacare, PATRIOT Act, etc) and it's not really true. Lawmakers usually work with and read a "normal language" version of laws that then gets transformed into a stricter legal version by staffers and experts. They will look at the actual legal version of the law if they care about a specific rule or section, but they usually don't need to.

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#518

Post by jessaustin »

complexmango wrote: post #513
samstave wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is that we need to demonize the people who are in fact evil and deliberately built this out and got it going. That list is surprisingly short: GHW Bush GW Bush D Cheney D Rumsfeld C Rice G Clapper G Alexander P Wolfowitz These are the guys that created the orders that the soldiers are following, and the war they are dying in for these criminal's profits.

Naive and unnecessary. The Patriot Act was overwhelmingly supported across the aisle. And it should be obvious by now that Obama is an enthusiastic supporter, based on his treatment of Snowden. Not to mention Pelosi and Feinstein aggressively defending the government's right to suppress information. This has nothing to do with party affiliation. If you believe in Republican Vs Democrat, you're still in the Matrix, an…

Blue pill for me! What a lovely color; it matches this donkey on my t-shirt!

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#519

Post by samstave »

complexmango wrote: post #513
samstave wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is that we need to demonize the people who are in fact evil and deliberately built this out and got it going. That list is surprisingly short: GHW Bush GW Bush D Cheney D Rumsfeld C Rice G Clapper G Alexander P Wolfowitz These are the guys that created the orders that the soldiers are following, and the war they are dying in for these criminal's profits.

Naive and unnecessary. The Patriot Act was overwhelmingly supported across the aisle. And it should be obvious by now that Obama is an enthusiastic supporter, based on his treatment of Snowden. Not to mention Pelosi and Feinstein aggressively defending the government's right to suppress information. This has nothing to do with party affiliation. If you believe in Republican Vs Democrat, you're still in the Matrix, an…

I think you're missing what I am saying, which firstly, is in no way party related.

The people I listed have a decades long history which brought them to the US Coup of 9/11: Cheney in particular.

The above are at the core of PNAC, the CIAs takeover of the executive branch (both Clinton and Obama are their puppets here)

GHW Bush has been running shit since the 70s.

Cheney setup the framework for the current MIC exploitation of the world when he was in Sec. Defense position in the early 90s - then setup Halliburton to be in the position to receive all the mandated private-sector contracts so the military could focus on its "core" -- the same with the Carlyle group.

(Carlyle owned CRG West (MAE WEST) and other fiber infra and DCs)

These guys worked diligently to put all this into place. Obama is just a puppet who was meant to quell the outrage that the Bush regime was bringing.

I posted a list of the key players in this, I did not post any party affiliation....

I can provide a hell of a lot more detail than this too - going back to 1920 with these guys...

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#520

Post by burntsushi »

mpyne wrote: post #511
burntsushi wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it would not... At this point, it seems quite feasible that Facebook, Google, et al., are telling the truth at least in some respect. The point is that there are TWO different forms of data collection: PRISM and XKeyscore. PRISM happens via court order and is what we've heard about primarily up until today. XKeyscore is a separate program and does not require the compliance of Google, Facebook, et al. In fact, it…

The ISPs might not have a choice either, thanks to CALEA.

Definitely. Thanks for pointing that out! I didn't mean to imply either way, but looking back, I did use some unfortunate phrasing.
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