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Fable 5.1 Solves the Cyphral Distich, a 370-year-old cipher

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Re: Fable 5.1 Solves the Cyphral Distich, a 370-year-old cipher

#511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Art and music are two very obviously implicated hobbies Do you think anyone likes "AI" art and music? It's pretty widely reviled.

Outside of our bubble, yeah, especially if it's not called out specifically as AI. YouTube and Facebook are awash in stuff that's pretty clearly AI, and it's getting engagement or they wouldn't keep making it.

All of the "engagement" I see on those videos is calling out that it is slop and boomers being confused by whatever the topic is.

Re: Fable 5.1 Solves the Cyphral Distich, a 370-year-old cipher

#512
post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The question for me is where it leaves innovation. Have we really peaked as a species that we so easily want to give up on the young and hand them over a tool that would substitute reasoning? This is a crucial question but I'm afraid the ship has sailed. We should focus on how to prevent atrophy and cultivate our skills in spite of LLMs. For me and many others this means doing thins the old way with occasional assi…

This is all valid and I am with you here. However I can totally imagine kids in 10 years viewing writing code by hand same as we view making fire using flint and steel: yes can be useful, but why bother? Except in this case I fear we're losing something very important as opposed to the above example.

This is a dumb comparison.

Does the steel factory worker fix the issues with the machinery if/when it goes wrong?

The day llm’s can produce perfect code - meaning no human intervention to fix errors - most here will face much bigger problems.

Re: Fable 5.1 Solves the Cyphral Distich, a 370-year-old cipher

#513

Time to find out who Satoshi Nakamoto is

That was a throw-away name, and "he" was fabricated as part of an Nvidia demand-stimulation black op. You don't go from being an obscure video card outfit to the #1 most valuable company on the planet by being too hesitant or dim to really get creative.

> and "he" was fabricated as part of an Nvidia demand-stimulation black op.

... in 2008?!

Re: Fable 5.1 Solves the Cyphral Distich, a 370-year-old cipher

#514
post #477
post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. Listen there’s no doubt LLM’s are powerful. BUT THEY RELY ON HUMAN INPUTS. It’s getting tiresome seeing the same bull shit over and over. The labs have invested hundreds of billions and now need to show RSI. It’s not happening and won’t happen. Without continual new information supplied by humans the models would freeze.

The question for me is where it leaves innovation. Have we really peaked as a species that we so easily want to give up on the young and hand them over a tool that would substitute reasoning? Call me naive or old, but I don't see a need to think critically when you have a tool that can outmatch you in that. I tried drawing analogies with Chess, but it doesn't work. Shall I ask AI to do that for me?

Nope far from it.

In fact it doesn’t matter how much llm’s evolve - the people (those who make discoveries) who will benefit and make the next leaps will require a deeper understanding and taste.

This has always been the case. Except now we can re-organise things and do them at much higher scale.

Re: Fable 5.1 Solves the Cyphral Distich, a 370-year-old cipher

#515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. This may be some niche thing that I've never heard of but a) it's still non-trivial; it still would have been science fiction to solve it a few years ago, and b) have you already forgotten the Navier Stokes drama? That is not some niche thing I've never heard of. It kind of blows my mind how quickly people have forgotten both the state of AI in ~2010, and the outlook . If you had asked 100 people in 2010…

> If you had asked 100 people in 2010 whether they would see AI that could actually pass the Turing test in their lifetimes, you would have got 100 "no"s. There's no way that's accurate. We already had big claims of the Turing test being passed in 2014, by a bot that had been doing almost as well for years. There were plenty of people expecting fusion in their lifetimes too and that's going okay.

> We already had big claims of the Turing test being passed in 2014

Nah there was that bullshit Loebner prize or whatever, but that was just shitty chatbots being "judged" by people asking questions like "how are you today?" and then being breathlessly reported by the press. It was a publicity stunt.

Perhaps I should have said "100 people well-informed about AI".

Re: Fable 5.1 Solves the Cyphral Distich, a 370-year-old cipher

#516

That's pretty cool, especially the fact that it chose the problem itself. The uncovered text, though: > O GOD UPHOLD KING CHARLS THE SECOND AND MAKE HIM THE SUPREME RULER OF THIS LAND That's like working out a cereal box cipher and finding the message is "Do your homework and tidy your room".

It was published in 1653, during the Commonwealth. So faintly equivalent to finishing your book with "End the illegal war in Ukraine" in modern-day Russia.

With the royalist bent of this claim it would be more along the lines of “May glorious Russia prevail against Ukraine”.

Re: Fable 5.1 Solves the Cyphral Distich, a 370-year-old cipher

#517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> BUT THEY RELY ON HUMAN INPUTS humans rely on human inputs. can then talk about the small number of humans who push the boundaries of knowledge and then talk about when LLMs solve difficult math problems...

[flagged]

how many humans would invent writing without being taught in school? how about algebra? how about arabic numeral-ing?

and you have no idea how humans reason, but LLMs are neural networks, what do you think neural refers to?

Re: Fable 5.1 Solves the Cyphral Distich, a 370-year-old cipher

#518
post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. Listen there’s no doubt LLM’s are powerful. BUT THEY RELY ON HUMAN INPUTS. It’s getting tiresome seeing the same bull shit over and over. The labs have invested hundreds of billions and now need to show RSI. It’s not happening and won’t happen. Without continual new information supplied by humans the models would freeze.

> BUT THEY RELY ON HUMAN INPUTS humans rely on human inputs. can then talk about the small number of humans who push the boundaries of knowledge and then talk about when LLMs solve difficult math problems...

There seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding here that many LLM advocates fall prey to. No one claims (anymore) that LLMs are completely useless. We agree that these tools can boost productivity. But there is a fundamental difference between human creativity and the statistical processing of large amounts of data in an artificial neural network. The latter can yield new insights for the person operating the LLM. But if the insight was more or less contained 1-to-1 in the training data, this confirms the observation that the original contribution of LLMs consists mainly of unearthing relevant facts, but is otherwise very limited when it comes to synthetic judgments (in the Kantian sense).

If the claims made by LLM manufacturers regarding these systems' own capabilities repeatedly turn out to be little more than a hoax, critics of this practice shouldn't simply be dismissed as Luddites. Instead, we should acknowledge that, despite their remarkable capabilities, these systems ultimately deliver far, far, far less than what the snake-oil salesmen—cruising through the valley in their Koenigseggs—repeatedly promise to the public and investors. Anyone who still hasn't grasped this, even though it's so obvious, should urgently focus more on what is actually the case and less on what is being sold to us as the future. Anyone who thinks that technological leaps can simply be extrapolated linearly like this is just naive!

Re: Fable 5.1 Solves the Cyphral Distich, a 370-year-old cipher

#519
post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question for me is where it leaves innovation. Have we really peaked as a species that we so easily want to give up on the young and hand them over a tool that would substitute reasoning? Call me naive or old, but I don't see a need to think critically when you have a tool that can outmatch you in that. I tried drawing analogies with Chess, but it doesn't work. Shall I ask AI to do that for me?

They cannot yet outmatch humans in critical thinking. Heck, they cannot outmatch a mediocre person like me yet. How many times have we awen "You are right...." Even on sota models? They are great tools for research and tasks as of now.

I think they can match a human in critical thinking, but they can't match a human in coherence and meta-thinking. You can prompt an LLM to critically think of any idea you want and it's often able to do so, but it's rarely going to do that by itself.

Re: Fable 5.1 Solves the Cyphral Distich, a 370-year-old cipher

#520
post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, he's right. Actually, let's have a bit of sobriety when discussing the achievements of the most heavily marketed technology of all time, as published by an organisation that stands to benefit financially from the public perception of that technology. The discussion of "what made this problem low hanging fruit" is much more interesting, imo, than just breathlessly joining the hype train.

Thank you. More money than the GDP 90% of the sovereign countries around the world is hanging in the balance, and people are taking everything OpenAI and Anthropic are saying at face value as if this isn't the financial / marketing equivalent of war, assuming they they wouldn't use every legal and shady tactic, bending every truth available to them to sway the balance of public opinion in their favor. It makes me fee…

I think we are seeing how easy most people are to manipulate and how ‘smart’ few actually are.
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