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London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

btp.police.uk

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Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#511

Post by slopinthebag »

t0bia_s wrote: post #325
slopinthebag wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's called anarchy-tyranny, where the government fails to enforce basic laws and keep people safe from real criminals (anarchy), but instead uses its power to tightly control, tax, and punish ordinary, law-abiding citizens (tyranny). There are various conspiratorial theories for why this happens but I think the simplest explanation is that an ineffective government cannot deal with criminals and goes after the easie…

Why anarchy = criminal?

Anarchy has multiple definitions, on of which is lawless and violence and chaos.

Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#512

Post by OJFord »

sandblast wrote: post #478
OJFord wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I scan and bag while I shop, so self-checkout is just paying. It's barely a shift of work from cashier to me, because I have to pick things up and place them in my bag/basket/trolley anyway, scanning them as I do is barely an increase in work.

You describe mobile handheld scanners that are a form of self-checkout in some stores, but not the norm. Most of the commenters here probably associate self-checkout with a station with touchscreen, scanner and bagging area.

> You describe mobile handheld scanners

Aka 'my phone', but yes. It's the same self-checkout machine (just only need to pay if you already scanned). Widespread in the UK at least.

Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#513

Post by singleshot_ »

dofm wrote: post #264
singleshot_ wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The latter is legitimate, isn't it? No, arresting people for crimes they haven’t committed is horrifying and bizarre.

We're not talking about some notion of thoughtcrime here. We're talking about preparation, and the equivalent of reasonable suspicion for a stop or probable cause for an arrest in the USA, where people absolutely are arrested every day for things an officer has seen enough evidence to believe are about to happen.

no one is talking about a Terry stop except you. “Might” is not probable cause.

Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#514

Post by tim333 »

lowbloodsugar wrote: post #324
tim333 wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlike Brazil the movie it's quite hard to actually end up in jail in the UK. The courts lean more towards letting criminals walk.

You’ve been drinking the propaganda again. Most cases don’t make it to court. The courts lean towards trusting the police. The police lean towards perjury.

Dunno. I've lived in England sixty years and don't know anyone who went to jail apart from one who was the getaway driver for a robbery. I know a few who have done crimes but gotten away with it. Do you live there and know anyone unfairly banged up? Not sure which propaganda I should have seen? I see a lot of MAGA types who haven't been here determined to make out it's some sort of hell hole.

I was chatting to friends last week and one of the has a friend who knows a friendly drug addict who nicks meat to order - they say what they want and he goes to Tesco and walks out with it. That's the more common problem - under enforcement rather than overdoing it.

Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#515

Post by codeduck »

IshKebab wrote: post #265
codeduck wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All right, mate, let's hear your plan for securing the UK's south-eastern coastline.

Take people back to France? Feels pretty damn obvious to me. I believe they even agreed something like that fairly recently.

Believe it or not, they actually already do this.

Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#516

Post by codeduck »

account42 wrote: post #465
codeduck wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All right, mate, let's hear your plan for securing the UK's south-eastern coastline.

Most (non-western) countries do pretty well by making it clear that those who enter illegally will be arrested, charged, imprisoned, and then deported (at their own cost) rather than given free benefits.

Believe it or not, the UK already does this to people for whom there is no plausible asylum claim. The problem, if you want to think about it as such, is that the UK currently believes in treating potential asylum claimants as such rather than automatically labeling them as criminals.

Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#517

Post by inigyou »

hbs18 wrote: post #488
inigyou wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In most countries they can. Which is why you should (in a perfect world) have password or fingerprint unlock, and if you use the fingerprint, the phone wipes itself. Not even Graphene supports this.

Wouldn't that lead you to getting charged for destruction of evidence?

Only if you told the police to unlock the phone with your fingerprint. If they did it without your involvement, it's allowed.

Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#518

Post by lowbloodsugar »

tim333 wrote: post #514
lowbloodsugar wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’ve been drinking the propaganda again. Most cases don’t make it to court. The courts lean towards trusting the police. The police lean towards perjury.

Dunno. I've lived in England sixty years and don't know anyone who went to jail apart from one who was the getaway driver for a robbery. I know a few who have done crimes but gotten away with it. Do you live there and know anyone unfairly banged up? Not sure which propaganda I should have seen? I see a lot of MAGA types who haven't been here determined to make out it's some sort of hell hole. I was chatting to friend…

Good friend is a criminal defense barrister in London.

You can have non enforcement and stitch-ups in the same system. On the one hand, they just don’t care about regular policing. On the other, if you cross their path, or you “fit the description”, they’ll do anything, including perjury, to convict.

They aren’t here to protect you or your property. They are here to protect the system.

Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#519

Post by rtpg »

Cider9986 wrote: post #455
rtpg wrote: post #333

Like 10 years ago I realized that facial recognition research was basically on the same level as weapons research, if not worse. So many nefarious usages. Every researcher and product designer who leaned into this just has helped speedrun the world into a nasty place. But I guess I don’t have to type my passcode into my phone anymore!

>I don’t have to type my passcode into my phone anymore! FaceID is completely on device and the biometrics can't be extracted even with physical access. Very different from facial recognition in this context.

My feeling is that the entire category of research is bad, even if you can end up with good implementations.

Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#520

Post by yearesadpeople »

rjh29 wrote: post #292
yearesadpeople wrote: post #184

It's the usual responses isn't it: _'I'm saddened'_ or, _'what has happened to Britain'_. Had a look at America, Russia, or Belarus, etc.? Living in the UK is fantastic.

Two things can be true here 1. The UK "surveillance state" narrative pushed in the US is overblown and we do not think about it or care about it as much as Americans do 2. Living in the UK is not "fantastic" for a decent percentage of people. Cost of living is insane.

Cost of living is an interesting comparison to invoke. For low, mid, high income households and individuals - per region - would the cost of living - in the UK - be higher or lower considering the same factors (income, region, family) of the US?
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