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Why American ambulance rides are so expensive

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Re: Why American ambulance rides are so expensive

#511

Post by toomuchtodo »

KetoManx64 wrote: post #507
expedition32 wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Christianity died in my country because people got tired of the judgemental, hypocritical cunts. The child abuse scandals that hit later only confirmed it.

Worse than the child abuse scandals of goverment: - public school teachers sexually abusing their students - The Epstein files ?

You’re attributing to government what is just the overwhelming population of perps in this context: predatory men. Sometimes teachers, very often religious institution participants; positions of power, trust, and/or authority used to control.

Re: Why American ambulance rides are so expensive

#512

Post by KetoManx64 »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #511
KetoManx64 wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worse than the child abuse scandals of goverment: - public school teachers sexually abusing their students - The Epstein files ?

You’re attributing to government what is just the overwhelming population of perps in this context: predatory men. Sometimes teachers, very often religious institution participants; positions of power, trust, and/or authority used to control.

I am not. School teachers are predominantly women (around 90%), single parent homes are primarily run by women, women play the largest roles in the raising of children in genetal, and also make up about 35% of domestic abuse reports (not accounting for all the cases where men are too ashamed to report the abuse).

Women commit just as much sexual abuse as men, it's just not talked about by society.

Re: Why American ambulance rides are so expensive

#513

Post by toomuchtodo »

KetoManx64 wrote: post #512
toomuchtodo wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re attributing to government what is just the overwhelming population of perps in this context: predatory men. Sometimes teachers, very often religious institution participants; positions of power, trust, and/or authority used to control.

I am not. School teachers are predominantly women (around 90%), single parent homes are primarily run by women, women play the largest roles in the raising of children in genetal, and also make up about 35% of domestic abuse reports (not accounting for all the cases where men are too ashamed to report the abuse). Women commit just as much sexual abuse as men, it's just not talked about by society.

> Women commit just as much sexual abuse as men, it's just not talked about by society.

Please provide a citation for this assertion. Here’s mine refuting it.

https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/research-and-pu...

https://smart.ojp.gov/somapi/chapter-2-etiology-adult-sexual...

https://www.humanrights.unsw.edu.au/news/study-finds-one-10-...

Re: Why American ambulance rides are so expensive

#515

Post by refurb »

Alpha3031 wrote: post #493
refurb wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you consider financial ruin? Last time I checked most of those countries are desperately trying to contain their healthcare spending.

I refuse to play these games. If you wish to make the argument that universal healthcare (including cheap or free ambulance coverage at point of use) necessarily leads to financial ruin you are free to make that argument, along with all the necessary support such a position requires. If you do not wish to do so, then I have no issues and thus decline to make any argument otherwise. I am not obligated to make your arg…

> I am not obligated to make your argument for you

Are you just uncomfortable with debate? How do you debate the merits of the argument without defining the terms being used?

Re: Why American ambulance rides are so expensive

#516

Post by refurb »

rounce wrote: post #491
refurb wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you consider financial ruin? Last time I checked most of those countries are desperately trying to contain their healthcare spending.

The increase in healthcare costs is more a function of an aging population, rather than people (mis)using ambulances too much. However in these countries, although the rates are fairly low, misuse of ambulances is often heavily linked to poor levels of health literacy or lack of transportation options - though the caller often genuinely perceives it as an emergency - both of which can be improved through other progra…

> The increase in healthcare costs is more a function of an aging population, rather than people (mis)using ambulances too much.

Sure, but increasing healthcare costs are due to a number of factors like new technology adoption, not just an aging population.

So while I would agree that no one is going bankrupt from overuse of ambulances, it all adds up.

Re: Why American ambulance rides are so expensive

#517

Post by refurb »

wisty wrote: post #497
refurb wrote: post #489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US care is highly aligned with international guidelines. Saying "it's junk volume" just tells me you're not that close to the data. Life expectancy doesn't measure quality of healthcare, there are far too many confounding variables like genetics, diet, accidental deaths, etc. No serious study of healthcare quality relies on it. Look at 5-year cancer survival rates. The US is better (significantly better) in many of t…

Now do maternal death rate. Like I said, a good place to have cancer but they aren't good at stuff that matters. The US leans aggressive on tests and heroic end of life care. I doubt you really disagree (except maybe on whether you think it's the right call). That is where the money is, since the insurance company can be forced to pay. It's kind of good for the rest of the world though if the US wants to pay (in both…

> Now do maternal death rate

Sure!

https://archive.is/rMVJ0

Turns out the CDC changed the way it counts maternal deaths, while other countries didn't, so you're comparing different measures.

The old US measure was deaths that occurred during birth or shortly thereafter, now it's within six months and they added a check box only asking if the woman had been pregnant in the last year.

Not "this woman died because of poor maternal care", but rather "this woman who died had been pregnant in the last year".

This change immediately doubled the number. The data was wildly overestimating maternal deaths and in fact the CDC and many states are revising data collection to improve the number.

Re: Why American ambulance rides are so expensive

#518

Post by Alpha3031 »

refurb wrote: post #515
Alpha3031 wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I refuse to play these games. If you wish to make the argument that universal healthcare (including cheap or free ambulance coverage at point of use) necessarily leads to financial ruin you are free to make that argument, along with all the necessary support such a position requires. If you do not wish to do so, then I have no issues and thus decline to make any argument otherwise. I am not obligated to make your arg…

> I am not obligated to make your argument for you Are you just uncomfortable with debate? How do you debate the merits of the argument without defining the terms being used?

No, I just don't see any point in debating anything when you presumably agree that nobody is being bankrupted by free ambulance rides given that you called it a strawman. If you wish to defend what you called a strawman, which I didn't think people normally did in good faith but could be convinced otherwise, then I am willing to let you set the definitions you wish and make a case, as is standard for those instigating a discussion, while reserving the right to decline further participation if my disagreement with the position is below a certain threshold and/or any other reason I might find the discussion unproductive.

Re: Why American ambulance rides are so expensive

#519

Post by Hnrobert42 »

Planktonne wrote: post #509
Hnrobert42 wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really not understand the difference between the one you cited and the one to which I was responding? The one to which I was responding was capricious. The one you cited has reasoning, even if you disagree with it. And that was the whole point of my comment. That by reducing the other side to a farcical strawman, you diminish your own argument. It just becomes a yelling match. I would rather debate the person…

You shifted the goalposts quite a lot there; first you wanted an example of evil, and now you want an example of unreasoning evil. Evil is often very reasonable; pretending otherwise is a 'farcical strawman' of your own.

Do you believe the example given was evil? I believe they are wrong not evil. That's what I mean that I will not be a cynic.

Re: Why American ambulance rides are so expensive

#520

Post by sgerenser »

Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #506
sgerenser wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might find those salaries reasonable, but they’re probably double what those same occupations pay in many other (first world) countries with lower healthcare costs. Maybe the trade off is worth it, but it’s not something that can be ignored when people complain about how much more expensive healthcare is in the U.S. compared to Europe (for example).

> but they’re probably double what those same occupations pay in many other (first world) countries with lower healthcare costs You'll find that salaries across the board are lower in other countries. Software developers in Europe make half of what they do in the USA. In exchange, they get far better benefits. Also, physician salary only makes up about 8% of total healthcare costs [0]. Cutting salaries in half wouldn…

No, certainly just cutting physician salaries wouldn’t make a big difference. But cutting salaries for everyone involved, including physicians, nurses, and administration would. I’m not saying we should do that, but just that people seem to ignore how much higher salaries are in the U.S. when they compare healthcare costs to other countries.
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