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If Claude Fable stops helping you, you'll never know

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Re: If Claude Fable stops helping you, you'll never know

#511

Post by JoshTriplett »

michaelscott wrote: post #426
JoshTriplett wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kindly drop the condescension. It is, in fact, possible for the world to get more dangerous over time . It is important to avoid falling into the trap of assuming that's inevitable. > Ordinary people were able to do these things pre AI-- with some effort into study for sure. Yes, and the amount of study and knowledge required had a tendency to filter out people with the inclination to do such things. The Venn diagram…

It is not a given that we should allow computers to exist, the risk of harm is too great. It is not a given that we should allow vehicles to exist, the risk of harm is too great. It is not a given that we should allow hammers to exist, the risk of harm is too great. The argument, even if it weren't moot due to the cat already being long out of the bag, is recursive all the way back to the discovery of fire. As a spec…

I do not believe nuclear weaponry should be "democratized and available to all"; it should not exist. Likewise AI that's capable of step-by-step bioweapon creation for the average person. It shouldn't exist in the hands of governments, either.

This is not a slippery slope, nor do I think your attempted reductio ad absurdum is valid: we can talk about AI and nuclear weaponry and judge them differently than we do computers and hammers.

Re: If Claude Fable stops helping you, you'll never know

#512

Post by pjmlp »

jbs789 wrote: post #494
splwjs wrote: post #475

There's already an obvious stench to "you should scale down your engineering team to a skeleton crew whose core competency is using our product, so that it's the only way to modify your product"; that's going to result in a lot of foodless tables when anthropic et al decide they have enough leverage to stop subsidizing their subscription prices down to what, 4-10% of the marginal cost? Well it doesn't matter how much…

Repeat of the cycle where companies moved to the cloud, now locked in. Move engineering to Claude, then locked in. What’s played out at the infra level will now play out at the software engineer level… is that analogous…?

Spot on, the size of backend teams reduced drastically as we made the progression through cloud, serverless, SaaS, iPaaS, and now agent orchestration tooling.

What would be a team of about 20 devs a decade ago, are usually about 5 persons across all project roles.

Hence when someone says their job is AI safe, I can only understand they weren't affected by such "progress".

Re: If Claude Fable stops helping you, you'll never know

#513

Post by anematode »

capevace wrote: post #142

has dario (or sam tbh) ever been thoroughly asked about the hypocrisy of them claiming distillation to be „theft“ vs. them training on the copyright of others? I’ve only seen him talk about one of those topics, but never together. I just can’t see how you can talk yourself out of that hypocrisy, if BS answers are properly followed up on (journalism!)

I'm not normally a fan of ex post facto law, but...

Re: If Claude Fable stops helping you, you'll never know

#514

Post by jatora »

AuthAuth wrote: post #329
jatora wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'evil' lol. Every single corporation you deal with is evil then. it's greed. and almost every large model provider is guilty of it. China is all open source right now. cool! gee i wonder what would happen if they ever actually achieved SOTA? They would clamp down on that so fast Dadio's dradel would spin

China isnt "all open source" they still keep their top models out of the public view. Its easy to "open source" models when they're so far behind very few will pay for them. Open source in quotes because they are not open source and not even close to open source.

And what models do they keep out of public view? What ridiculous propaganda is this?!

Re: If Claude Fable stops helping you, you'll never know

#515

Post by zoogeny »

AgentME wrote: post #243
zoogeny wrote: post #138

It is very difficult to see this move as anything other than Anthropic pulling the ladder up behind itself. They can dress it up in "safety" all they want, I find it hard to interpret this in a charitable way. This reminds me of how dark-pattern common wisdom in Web 1.0 website development was to ban external links. Then how social apps prevented the export of data and actively worked to nerf significant interoperabi…

They believe they're going to eventually develop AI that's capable of recursive self improvement into world-redefining super-intelligence. I wouldn't expect someone in that position to risk giving away their lead. I expect we're going to see more of the top labs selectively holding back their best stuff.

I accept your point, in the sense that I wouldn't suggest that they have any obligation to share their own research.

What seems to be different here, is that they are saying they won't let you use their tool to do your own research.

It is a subtle but important difference. They aren't saying "we have secret sauce we won't share", they seem to be saying "we will prevent the tool you are paying for from independently creating a competing idea".

Re: If Claude Fable stops helping you, you'll never know

#516

Post by zoogeny »

willsmith72 wrote: post #191
zoogeny wrote: post #138

It is very difficult to see this move as anything other than Anthropic pulling the ladder up behind itself. They can dress it up in "safety" all they want, I find it hard to interpret this in a charitable way. This reminds me of how dark-pattern common wisdom in Web 1.0 website development was to ban external links. Then how social apps prevented the export of data and actively worked to nerf significant interoperabi…

I don't see it as a ladder at all, unless you claim Anthropic built their own models by training off of other closed frontier models, violating those models' ToS

Imagine you are in the shower one day and you come up with the sketch of a possible innovation on model architecture, however there are some fine details and tricky implementations that you need to do in order to test it out. So you fire up Claude Code and describe your idea and ask it to provide some reflection on the idea and work out some proof-of-concept code.

In this scenario, this is your idea. You aren't "training off of other closed frontier models" in a distillation sense. This is your insight, your idea, possibly gained from reading a lot of papers and built on your own experience.

How do you feel if the model refuses? Do you consider the scenario I described a violation of someone else's rights?

Re: If Claude Fable stops helping you, you'll never know

#517

Post by Melatonic »

splwjs wrote: post #475

There's already an obvious stench to "you should scale down your engineering team to a skeleton crew whose core competency is using our product, so that it's the only way to modify your product"; that's going to result in a lot of foodless tables when anthropic et al decide they have enough leverage to stop subsidizing their subscription prices down to what, 4-10% of the marginal cost? Well it doesn't matter how much…

Remember that top tier senior dev you hired? Now you never know when they're going to automatically and silently fall back to junior level. And randomly back again.

That may be the equivalent to where this is heading

Re: If Claude Fable stops helping you, you'll never know

#518

Post by code_duck »

gblargg wrote: post #302
code_duck wrote: post #256

This is the way tech companies have been dealing with perceived abuse for years, at least a decade. Instead of telling you what a problem is, they'll just say "something went wrong". Theoretically this is to prevent bad actors from learning the bounds and how to abuse a system. It is similar to shadow banning.

Sounds like this one just silently corrupts the results. It's more like when YouTube shadow deletes your comments without any notification, it's just gone after a few minutes.

From what I've observed, 1-2 years ago if you were timed out or hidden (banned) on a live stream, YouTube would show a "you've been timed out or hidden" message above the commenting box. Then it seems they changed that to simply showing your comments as if they were posted successfully, but nobody else can see them, i.e. shadow banning. It's rather obvious on channels with text-to-speech because the TTS bot doesn't say your comments. You can also sign in with another account and see your comment doesn't appear. This involves both automated filtering by YouTube, filtering set up by the channel owner or managing mod, and moderator actions. It's a pretty annoying way to do things.

Re: If Claude Fable stops helping you, you'll never know

#519

Post by KronisLV »

"We have detected that you're from Oceania, so as Eurasia, we have decided to silently make all of the code that you generate have subtle bugs, bad patterns for performance, security vulnerabilities and overall make the quality trend downwards on the scale of years. Oh, and also subtle misinformation praising our government but critiquing yours, and your entire political ideology."

The science fiction writes itself.

Re: If Claude Fable stops helping you, you'll never know

#520

Post by gck1 »

lobocinza wrote: post #466
viking123 wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amodei is worse psychopath than Altman, and by far

Could you explain why?

It feels to me that Altman became humbler for the lack if a better word?

And OpenAI's general communication as of late feels more grounded, much more pleasant than Anthropic comms. They also seem to be focusing on users quite a bit more.

Anthropic's communication style feels like I somehow owe them my life or something.

This was very different a year ago.

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