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What we lost when we stopped letting kids leave the front yard

stevemagness.substack.com

511–520 of 632 posts

Re: What we lost when we stopped letting kids leave the front yard

#511
post #284

When are we gonna get a rule about AI slop submissions? "Don't post generated comments or AI-edited comments. HN is for conversation between humans." Why limit this to comments only? In this case the conversation was literally started by an AI. At least require people to label submissions as AI-generated and then give users a way to filter that shit out. I don't come to HN to read AI slop.

Wait, how do you know that? I took a quick look at OPs stuff and it seems human

Re: What we lost when we stopped letting kids leave the front yard

#512
post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not many movies are made on people getting hit by lightning. Perception beats stats and facts.

yes, feels and vibes beat rationality and science. Is it any surprise the US is backsliding?

Can't tell if it's backsliding or reverting to the mean :(

Re: What we lost when we stopped letting kids leave the front yard

#513
post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's an inherent tension between protecting public spaces and protecting vulnerable but disruptive people. Your link refers to an article which is very American and very 2018. Lots of large font size headings about race and sexuality and gender. I don't think it's a productive take on how to manage the tension. Racially homogenous societies still need to decide how to handle people who try to sleep at train statio…

Sleeping at train stations is fine (as is sleeping on trains), and yelling at commuters is disruptive / antisocial behaviour. (I don't like the word "antisocial" in laws, because it's too open to interpretation, and then you have a load of case law defining what precisely "antisocial" means, known only to legal experts, leaving everyone else ignorant of the law.) It seems to me that additional rules against loitering…

Why is sleeping at a train station fine? (Unless you're talking about infrequent long distance trains).

Trains are transportation infrastructure. Drivers don't have to put up with people setting up a queen bed in the middle of their lane on the highway. If a country doesn't protect its public transport infrastructure, then the rich and the middle class stop taking the train, the poor have to put up with things, and the mentally ill get an overpriced and noisy mobile homeless shelter. One that costs more and helps less than crisis accommodation.

Re: What we lost when we stopped letting kids leave the front yard

#514
post #504

As a GenX kid who was pretty much literally "raised on hose water and neglect", I find it incredibly hard to relate to modern parenting (disclaimer: I don't have children). I had SO much freedom to roam around and do stuff, and half the time my parents had no idea where I was. Once I got into bicycle riding, I'd jump on my bike and go miles and miles from home. And there were no ubiquitous cell phones back then, so i…

That said, if I were a parent today, I think I'd be somewhat scared to give my kids the same amount of freedom I had. Why? Stranger kidnappings are down since you were a kid. What media are you consuming and what is it saying? "if it bleeds, it leads" has long been an adage that the news talks more about violence than other things, so take the volume of violent stories with a grain of salt. I think when you are a par…

Why? Stranger kidnappings are down since you were a kid. What media are you consuming and what is it saying? "if it bleeds, it leads" has long been an adage that the news talks more about violence than other things, so take the volume of violent stories with a grain of salt.

Sure, and of course I know all that. But here's the pernicious thing about it... even being aware of something like "it bleeds, it leads" doesn't automatically make you immune to some degree of subtle/unconscious influence. Active effort can combat that, and I'd like to think that if I did become a parent that I'd be able to make that effort and make the right decisions. But I have no doubt that there would be some nagging doubt in the back of my mind.

And to make it a little bit more real... I'm still an avid cyclist to this day, and I'm acutely aware of the dangers of riding bicycles on the road. Especially in the era of distracted drivers who are "texting and driving" and given how vehicles have gotten larger when many roads have not necessarily gotten correspondingly wider. And proper bike lanes are still rare in many places. So yeah, if my kid said "Hey, I'm jumping on my bike and heading out to Bobby's house", I'd have some trepidation just about the possibility of them being hit by a car... no "stranger danger" / "chester the molester" stuff required.

That said, I'd be worried about an adult doing the same thing, and for the same reasons! I can even fully acknowledge that it may not be a rational thing to engage in road cycling these days, but I still do it myself, so... what can ya do?

Re: What we lost when we stopped letting kids leave the front yard

#515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It won't increase their visibility, obviously. It will make them think twice before going on that crosswalk. Maybe they'll wait for a car that slows down after they've taken only 1 step on the crosswalk, maybe they'll wait for their eyes to meet the driver's or to see the driver making a "go, go" sign with their hand. Governments should make roads safer but until they do, we should care for ourselves. Imagine a sidew…

> Should we blindly go on the sidewalk saying "the government should make it better" or should we exercise caution not to trip and fall? The answer isn't binary. It's both. Governments are us, and we use that tool to manage collective resources like roads and sidewalks. Obviously we do what we can in the moment. That doesn't mean those given power are free to neglect our collective property, or even sell out to the i…

> The answer isn't binary. It's both. Governments are us, and we use that tool to manage collective resources like roads and sidewalks.

Definitely, that was my point, too. We should strive for change but accept when change hasn't happened yet.

Re: What we lost when we stopped letting kids leave the front yard

#516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why were loitering laws introduced? I doubt it was purely a sadistic effort to ruin the lives of kids. My guess is that combatting gang crime was a major reason.

My understanding is that loitering laws are much older than that - the first versions of these laws seems to date to 1342 [1]. IMO what all these laws have in common is that they're designed to allow the police to legally ask questions to people (or straight up remove them) who look suspicious but haven't committed any crime. Why would anyone want to remove people who haven't done anything wrong is a more nuanced que…

Have an unmarked "free candy" type van park across your street from your house day in and day out, moving with just enough regularity to avoid parking too long, and you might begin to understand why "look suspicious but haven't committed any crime" starts to weird people out.

Re: What we lost when we stopped letting kids leave the front yard

#517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But it's amazing how much modern-ish suburbia just has no place for you to even exist without a car. It's trendy to blame cars for this but the problem is fundamentally zoning. It's not that there is nowhere for you to exist without a car, it's that there is nowhere for you to exist there at all , and you thereby need a car to leave the vicinity in order to get anywhere you can. If you want to build a cafe or an ar…

As a European, I don’t understand why there’s such resistance to this. I get it NIMBY, but why? Surely good amenities would improve property values and life quality. If it’s right next to your home all the better. Peaceful quietness is so overrated by US and northern Europe. It feels creepy and dead to me, a liminal space. Besides, modern insulation does wonders for blocking noise if that bothers you, not to mention…

> I want my streets to feel alive!

Most american suburbanites completely disagree with this take. They want their street to be quite and devoid of people. I think this is largely because there is no recourse for anti social activity in the US. People who have spent a lot of time in cities start to notice that anti social activity doesnt really get stopped and many decide it would be better to just not be around outsiders who could annoy them so they enact exclusive zoning to minimize interaction with people they dont know.

Re: What we lost when we stopped letting kids leave the front yard

#518

I remember being young when "kids don't play in the yard anymore, they just play on their phone/consoles/computer" started to be a big talking point. Even then I recognized that the reason I was on the computer so much was, at least in part, because it was so much easier to hang out with my friends online than it was to coordinate with my parents to try and get travel to their house, or to convince my parents to let…

> it was so much easier to hang out with my friends online than it was to coordinate with my parents to try and get travel to their house The norm in the 70's was for younger kids to have multiple groups of friends, at least until they were old enough to ride their bike across town. When you spent time with larger groups of kids, like at school, you could make friends based on shared interests. After school, your fri…

I feel with larger school sizes and online capabilities we've lost the friendship of necessity - where you'd be friends with the kids on the block "because you had to" and there wasn't really any other option.

They might not be amazing friends, or life-long ones, but they were friends.

Re: What we lost when we stopped letting kids leave the front yard

#519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Us plebians don't live in expensive NYC penthouses.

All urban living situations that are not NYC penthouses are slums?

As someone who has lived in NYC, yes. The vast majority of housing in NYC is slum quality at insane prices

Re: What we lost when we stopped letting kids leave the front yard

#520

I remember being young when "kids don't play in the yard anymore, they just play on their phone/consoles/computer" started to be a big talking point. Even then I recognized that the reason I was on the computer so much was, at least in part, because it was so much easier to hang out with my friends online than it was to coordinate with my parents to try and get travel to their house, or to convince my parents to let…

My childhood was free range. Some of the greatest memories of my life (admittedly, also some not-so-great ones, but still) are from that time period. Maybe I was lucky to not get severely injured or abducted, but I do feel it helped me become a more resilient and independent person. I moved out of my parents' house at 18 and never had to go back for more than a few weeks. I have persevered through a widely varied arr…

>Maybe I was lucky to not get severely injured or abducted,

You fell for the trap that caused this whole issue, you were about as likely to get abducted as struck by lightning.

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