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The memory shortage is causing a repricing of consumer electronics

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Re: The memory shortage is causing a repricing of consumer electronics

#511

Post by ivewonyoung »

hackyhacky wrote: post #329
ivewonyoung wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that your proposed approach has been tried again and again and has failed every single time with disastrous consequences for several generations. Once people are given all the resources they want they are not motivated to work. The productive people get tired of the product of their hard work being forcibly taken away and stop working since they would be given resources anyway. That's how the system co…

> Once people are given all the resources they want they are not motivated to work You are again straw manning an argument. I said nothing about giving people all resources with no work. In fact, I explicitly said the opposite: I want a society where people compete to provide labor in order to gain material advantage. My argument against capitalism is that that competition should be fair: people should compete for re…

That makes no sense because labor needs capital to take risks so they get salaries. For example new drug discoveries cost a lot of money and a huge percentage fail with big losses that go to paying labor but not eventually benefiting from it. Banning that model where capital is risked by passive investors would've meant far fewer life saving drugs being invented, literally making mankind worse off.

If someone wants to passively invest $3M into a new coffee shop and pay labor to work in it, banning it like you want to do will kill the economy and disadvantage the little guy.

Re: The memory shortage is causing a repricing of consumer electronics

#512

Post by hackyhacky »

WalterBright wrote: post #499
hackyhacky wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in any way that matters to allow me to act. I don't care how you act. That capitalism benefits the rich is not the subject of debate. This isn't /r/wallstreetbets What is at stake us that all value is created by labor; and that the capitalist class (of which you are a member) is allowed to profit despite not producing anything at all. That makes you a parasite. Isn't that what the rich say about the poor?

> What is at stake us that all value is created by labor That's the communist "Labor Theory of Value" which is nonsense. For example, spend the day digging a hole in your backyard. Did you create any value? Nope.

> That's the communist "Labor Theory of Value" which is nonsense.

Can you explain how it's nonsense? Can you think of a valuable product or service that you consume that is not produced by labor?

> For example, spend the day digging a hole in your backyard. Did you create any value? Nope.

I didn't say that all labor produces value; I said that all value is produced by labor. As a Smart Guy who Created His Own Software Company with No Capital At All, I'm sure you know enough about elementary logic to recognize the difference.

Re: The memory shortage is causing a repricing of consumer electronics

#514

Post by platevoltage »

WalterBright wrote: post #165
platevoltage wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"while remaining authoritarian" implies that Authoritarianism is an exclusive trait of Communism, which is the most absurd thing I've ever heard. Use any Capitalist country with an Authoritarian leader as an example.

There have been 20,000 communes set up in the US. None were authoritarian. They all failed anyway.

I don't know what this has to do with anything I said.

Re: The memory shortage is causing a repricing of consumer electronics

#515

Post by WalterBright »

kakacik wrote: post #192
WalterBright wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why should society care about people making profits? The people making profits are the ones providing food, shelter, and phones to you.

Well I am still waiting for my google home and my meta steaks. Reality is, those companies don't give anything back, just siphone all profits into tax havens so owners can take as much cash out of it as possible, in one form or another. Their goal is to provide nothing back as much as they could. Look at their actions, not some empty PR statements.

> Reality is, those companies don't give anything back

California, Washington, and New York are about to find out what happens when they drive the wealthy businesses out of the state.

Massachusetts found out a few years ago. They decided they were going to heavily tax yachts that were built by the yacht industry in the state. What happened is the wealthy bought their yachts elsewhere, and the local yacht industry collapsed, and many thousands of skilled craftsmen lost their jobs.

The tax was rescinded.

Re: The memory shortage is causing a repricing of consumer electronics

#516

Post by hackyhacky »

WalterBright wrote: post #503
hackyhacky wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The people making profits are the ones providing food, shelter, and phones to you. I'm not worried about the guy making my sandwich at the corner deli. He's entitled to my money because he provides a valuable service. I am worried about the owner of FoodCo, who plays golf all day while his employees run the company. He provides literally no service to anyone at all, but makes more money than any employee. He then u…

Name one CEO of a large company who fits your profile.

Elon Musk is a great example. These days, he mostly writes racist tweets, pretends to play video games, consolidates his own businesses to increase his own apparent net worth, and undermines the federal government.

Re: The memory shortage is causing a repricing of consumer electronics

#517

Post by Animats »

ahepp wrote: post #266
Animats wrote: post #148

This is another place where modern capitalism struggles in an area that requires large capital investment producing payoff after years of startup costs, and the buy side is volatile. We've seen this recently with rare earths, copper, and some other minerals. DRAM is almost in the same category. China has an advantage here, once domestic DRAM production finally gets going. DRAM policy can be set strategically. China's…

what share of the DRAM market does China control today?

About 7.6%.[1] That's Changxin Memory Technologies. That makes them #4 in DRAM, after Samsung, Hynix, and Micron. They're still only a third the size of Micron, the last US manufacturer. They have a lot of scaling up to do, but they can make current-generation DRAM.

Changxin just became very profitable, due to high DRAM prices. They're planning an IPO. And, of course, building more fabs. Yangtze Memory Technologies isn't as far along, but they're building a new fab and planning an IPO.

Both of these companies were created in 2016 as part of a national effort to become a force in the DRAM industry. It took a while to get the technology working. Now it works, and they can scale up.

[1] https://chinabizinsider.com/how-the-economics-of-the-global-...

Re: The memory shortage is causing a repricing of consumer electronics

#518

Post by hackyhacky »

WalterBright wrote: post #505
hackyhacky wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your argument amounts to billionaire apologism and has nothing to do with my comment. If a supermarket cannot be profitable in a small village, an investor isn't going to change that. The investor will invest in businesses that can be profitable. > Your deli guy wouldn't have a job if the FoodCo guy hadn't done what he did. People have had jobs since before civilization, and certainly before massive accumulation of w…

In capitalist countries, accumulation of wealth comes alongside the prosperity of the rest of the country.

Ah yes, the famous "trickle down" economy of Reaganomics. If only we had more billionaires, then I'm sure I'd be able to afford to get my car fixed.

Unfortunately, this economic model has been proven to be wrong. If it were true, then we would have seen a decreasing gap between the rich and the poor. We didn't.

https://www.statista.com/chart/35953/inequality-wealth-gap-u...

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/oct/09/why-is...

Re: The memory shortage is causing a repricing of consumer electronics

#520

Post by hackyhacky »

WalterBright wrote: post #483
hackyhacky wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's commerce, not capitalism. Capitalism began when Thag declared that he owns all the dinosaurs, and anyone who hunts a dinosaur must pay him 10 percent of the meat as a tribute, or else he will stab them with his spear.

Um, Grog had the spear.

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