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German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function

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Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function

#511
post #286

ISO7816 (smartcard) has existed for nearly 4 decades as the standard secure identity card, widely used by the banking industry among others. Very unintrusive and not hostile beyond needing to carry a little chip. If governments want a national ID, they could just give everyone one of those.

Belgium has had exactly this for decades. But now they want to get on the hype train for smartphone based ID, because card reader support is still shit in browsers in 2026. Adding to this: anyone older than 12 years old is required by law to have their government issued ID on them at all times when in public. If your ID is suddenly your smartphone, you're essentially required to have that on you 24/7. Dystopian spywa…

because card reader support is still shit in browsers in 2026

Around a decade ago I was working at a company that used smartcard login for authenticating to internal sites. I've heard of many others doing the same. USB card reader worked fine in both IE and Firefox at the time, so I take your statement to mean that we've somehow regressed since then (not surprising) or this was an isolated instance of success (less likely, considering the US government also uses this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Access_Card).

Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function

#512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine we had real democracy where people vote on issues. Speed limits? Vote once every 7 years or so on it and be done with it. Same for abortion laws, drug laws, gambling laws. Have a debate, vote, come back to it in 7 years if there is public interest. Preferably vote locally on issues that can be applied locally (like speed limits/enforcement etc.). Public debate and assessing politicians and parties would be so…

Popular vote would have made sure civil rights legislation never passed and everything down to the schools and bathrooms would still be segregated.

I think you are wrong but it's hard to guess what would would happen in the past. Meanwhile a lot of unpopular policies are implemented right now.

You are hoping "good minority" will get its way ahead of "evil majority" in indirect democracy but if anything I see the reverse happening in a lot of Western countries today.

Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function

#515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why are we not refusing to implement this until we know we can make it work on all devices? Simply put: this will never happen. Way too many devices implementations to make this a reality.

It's just a matter of creating a web app.

And what attestation services does your web app use? Do we lock that web app behind having Secure boot enabled, along with a Java applet for the fun of it?

If your answer is "none", you missed the point.

Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function

#517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea is that some green ideologists think that when they don't need to drive a car because they don't leave their city, no one needs to drive a car. Because car driving creates CO2 which means car driving is bad. And they search for ways to implement that or make driving a car as bad as possible. Because they can't make the Deutsche Bahn better, they have to make driving your own car worse.

But then why not just make car driving not create CO2?

Because that doesn't play to Germany's industrial and economic strengths (precision machining, metallurgy, basically the whole ICE automobile supply chain).

EVs are just mechanically much simpler, with a shorter BOM that largely centers around Asian (particularly Chinese) battery, REE, and semiconductor supply chains, so hundreds of thousands of good jobs that supported Germany's industrial model are now economically obsolete.

Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function

#518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an unfair and a straw man argument, is it not? Are you also unhappy that in a democracy the 51% choose how the other 49% are going to be governed? Why device attestation is required is quite well explained by this github comment [0]. I am in the industry and I agree fully with it, because it is a fact a problem for most smart phone users in terms of security. 0 - https://github.com/eu-digital-identity-wallet/…

I think your analogy is flawed. I can be part of the losing 49% and still be entitled to receive the same services as the 51%, whereas people who chose a privacy-oriented OS are essentially going to be excluded from essential governmental services. That's a whole different kind of thing. I'm not going to replace my 1200 EUR smartphone with a device that forces me to have an account with Apple or Google. I've been iss…

>I' ve been issued a German identity card, which is its own computer that includes a digital identity already.

Then keep using it, instead of the not-mandatory app?

> I also own an expensive card reader, which together forms a system that is completely capable of supporting any attestation anyone would need.

Sure. In the mean time, do we tell the other few dozen millions that don't have an expensive card reader to go fuck themselves, or can we get to work on a solution that, even if not ideal, makes their lives easier?

> They should just stop excluding me already.

They aren't. You said it yourself, your ID is in your pocket.

Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function

#519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just a matter of creating a web app.

And what attestation services does your web app use? Do we lock that web app behind having Secure boot enabled, along with a Java applet for the fun of it? If your answer is "none", you missed the point.

Attestation of what? It's none of your business how I secure and configure my phone. I use a smart card on my Librem 5 btw. See also: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47647047

Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function

#520
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

German citizen here. So why is an implementation going forward when you already know it will not serve all citizens? Why are we not refusing to implement this until we know we can make it work on all devices? Personally I recently switched from an AOSP based android without Google Play to Ubuntu Touch. In the future with better hardware support I will probably switch to postmarketOS.

Do all German hospitals serve vegan food? If you were averse to carrots (without any health restrictions on eating them), would every government institution in Germany be required to serve you carrot-free food? If not, why should they be forced to accommodate every smartphone brand in existence, even if there's only 3 people in Germany using it? THe list has to end somewhere.

The ones I’m aware of do, yes
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