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German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

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Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

#511

Post by aleph_minus_one »

pfannkuchen wrote: post #476
dogemaster2026 wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is for the defense of the American national interests and friend nations: - Iraq: 1) to expel Iraq from Kuwait, and 2) weapons (though this turned out to be mistaken) after the 9/11 attacks - Iran: we don’t need another nuclear nation - Syria: destroy terrorists (ISIS), enforce the red line on chemical weapons, and to protect US troops (when we attacked Iran-supported militias) - Vietnam: to stop the spread of com…

That is basically redefining the word defense, though. I can’t be like “it was self defense” if I beat somebody up because they are getting too big at the gym and they could beat me up later if I don’t beat them up first. That doesn’t mean such a thing is never ever justified, in international relations, it just ain’t “defense”.

> That is basically redefining the word defense, though.

I guess that dogemaster2026 wanted to express this in a little bit more indirect way. :-)

Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

#513

Post by shikon7 »

vimbtw wrote: post #385
legitster wrote: post #77

> While the law requires men to request the permit, the spokesperson clarified, it also obliges the military career center to issue it, if "no specific military service is expected during the period in question.” > "Since military service under current law is based exclusively on voluntary participation, such permissions must generally be granted,” the official added. > When asked, the ministry spokesperson pointed o…

It seems like the purpose is to have the law and all the paperwork set up as a precaution for the future. Sure, right now it’s all voluntary and just rubber stamping, but if in the future they need to do something like Ukraine and lock down travel for military aged men, it’s much easier to flip a switch and start denying travel permits rather than having to set up and fund an entirely new system for requiring travel…

Also, in that case, they know where all the men currently are, which is probably the main reason to implement it now. m

Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

#514

Post by qayxc »

rustyhancock wrote: post #383
qayxc wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all you don't need it. Secondly, the regulation even states that the right is granted automatically anyway. Technically, the rule had been in place for the past 45+ years anyway - even when there was mandatory military service! - so it doesn't make any practical difference.

Then they should remove the law this weekend. Apparently it is bureaucracy without purpose after all?

> Apparently it is bureaucracy without purpose after all?

No it's not without purpose at all. The purpose is to know who could be drafted in a timely manner should the need arise. There's currently 2 major wars - sorry "special military operations" - happening, one of which in Europe.

A certain government involved in one of these simultaneously calls for allies to assist while at the same time openly questioning half a century of military alliances. So maybe this helps to understand why regulations like this make sense - even for people who never lived through a time when there was mandatory military service and take their own security for granted.

Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

#515

Post by samus »

pfannkuchen wrote: post #482
englishrookie wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost everything about societies except cities is just pretty words. Countries and most borders are just an abstraction. We fight for them because someone convinces us with words to do so. We could do the same for the UN and it would be a much nobler cause in most cases.

Human territory is absolutely natural and exists in other apes also. The feeling of defending territory is natural and is not words Only what constitutes the territory to defend has been warped by words.

Territory is not something physical that just exists. It's an idea, no matter whether a human or any other animal feels the need to enforce it.

Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

#516

Post by dundarious »

legitster wrote: post #77

> While the law requires men to request the permit, the spokesperson clarified, it also obliges the military career center to issue it, if "no specific military service is expected during the period in question.” > "Since military service under current law is based exclusively on voluntary participation, such permissions must generally be granted,” the official added. > When asked, the ministry spokesperson pointed o…

Previously it was conditional, only in effect “in the event of tension or defense” (machine translation), but they are very exceptional circumstances -- AFAIK not ever invoked since unification.

The change this year was to make it applicable regardless of those conditions: “Outside the tension or defense case, §§ 3 [...]” shall apply.

This is a significant change from the previous Cold War policy. I have talked about the definition of these terms in another comment, with another news article as source.

Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

#517

Post by snovymgodym »

Modern Germany will collapse in the face of any war that would justify conscription, so it's all a moot point anyway.

The country is already in a slow burning crisis due to the political and economic results of its demography, and a war coming to its own soil will send the walls tumbling down.

Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

#518

Post by vasac »

sveme wrote: post #493
vasac wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the previous time they were getting ready it was because those pesky Poles being an inch away from invading the Third Reich.

Are you implying that this is Germany getting ready to invade Poland?

I’m implying they aren’t getting ready because they think Russians are going to march on Berlin.

Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

#519

Post by mr_toad »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #208
markus_zhang wrote: post #154

Question for German friends: What do you think about the production level of military equipment? If Russia does move (which I think is unlikely in the near future), how many days does the ammo last?

NATO has days/weeks of ammunition, so it's woefully under-resourced. NATO doctrine is basically air superiority against any invading force, with the ability to wreak destruction far behind the front lines. Conveniently the Iran war has depleted stockpiles of almost everything. The reality is NATO is vulnerable on two fronts. The first is that NATO has no defences against the kind of drone and missile waves Russia has…

> If France stops being a deterrent Russia would be able to nuke Brussels - and perhaps a few other capitals to make the point - and likely force immediate surrender.

Ukraine isn’t under anyone’s nuclear umbrella, but Russia hasn’t done more than threaten to use nuclear weapons in that war. Probably because it’s not at all clear that it would actually force a surrender.

Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

#520

Post by tsoukase »

I still cannot understand why and what we are fighting for. Setting aside the wars of the previous decades, Russia was a long term ally with Ukraine, much like the USA and Canada and then out of nowhere they are in a "soft war". Also, after 50 years of the Islamic regime in Iran, we should engage in another soft war, again because of ill defined reasons. The soft is in contrast to regular war which locks down the whole society and has innumerous deaths and pain. I still cannot.
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