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Yann LeCun raises $1B to build AI that understands the physical world

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Re: Yann LeCun raises $1B to build AI that understands the physical world

#511
post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>it's just our nature Yea, its our nature to feel good about it, which is what evolution does. If you are curious, and if exploration makes you feel good, you have a better chance to survive, and you pass that trait along. I can't believe we are arguing about this.

It seems we're basically in agreement, not arguing! The only quibble I have is whether "feeling good" is the right way to describe how evolution has made us choose to engage in exploration/etc. I don't think it's quite as simple as evolution making things that are good for us feel good, and making things that are bad for us feel bad. There are a bunch of neurotransmitters and hormones that control how we behave. Evol…

When I said, "feel good/feel bad", I meant it as an umbrella term to cover all such positive/negative things.

So back to the point, there is no inherent motivation for LLMs/Machines, because they cannot feel. Where does the ability to fee come from?

No fukcing clue!

Re: Yann LeCun raises $1B to build AI that understands the physical world

#512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Memory systems built on top of LLMs could provide continual learning. I do not agree that it is some fundamental limitation. Claude Code already writes its own memory files. And people already finetune models. There is clear potential to use the former as a form of short-term memory and the latter for long-term “learning”. The main blockers to this are that models aren’t good enough at managing their own memory, and…

Continual learning isn't a "fundamental limitation" or unsolvable problem. Animal brains are an existence proof that it's possible, but it's tough to do, and quite likely SGD is not the way to do it, so any attempt to retrofit continual learning to LLMs as they exist today is going to be a hack... Memory and learning are two different things. Memorization is a small subset of learning. Memorizing declarative knowledg…

Fundamentally, I’m more optimistic on how far current approaches can scale. I see no reason why RL could not be used to train models to use memory, and fine-tuning already works, it’s just expensive.

The continual learning we get may be a bit hamfisted, and not fit into a neat architecture, but I think we could actually see it work at scale in the next few years. Whereas new techniques like what Yann Lecun have demonstrated still live heavily in the realm of research. Cool, but not useful yet.

Fine tuning is also not so limited as you suggest. For one, we don’t need to fine tune the same model over and over, you can just start with a frontier model each time. And two, modern models are much better at generating synthetic data or environments for RL. This could definitely work, but it might require a lot of work in data collection and curation, and the ROI is not clear. But if large companies continue to allocate more and more resources to AI in the next few years, I could see this happening.

OpenAI already has a custom model service, and labs have stated they already have custom models built for the military (although how custom those models are is unclear). It doesn’t seem like a huge leap to also fine-tune models over a companies internal codebases and tooling. Especially for large companies like Google, Amazon, or Stripe that employ tens of thousands of software engineers.

Re: Yann LeCun raises $1B to build AI that understands the physical world

#513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what you said: > they are still predicting training set continuations But this is underselling what they do. Probably a large part of what they predict is learnt from their training set, but RL has added a layer on top that does not just come from just mimicry. Again, I doubt this is enough for “AGI” but I think that term is not very well-defined to begin with. These models have now shown they are capable of…

In general there's a difference between novel and discovering something new. Pretraining has given the LLM a huge set of lego blocks that it can assemble in a huge variety of ways (although still limited by the "assembly patterns" is has learnt). If the LLM assembles some of these legos into something that wasn't directly in the training set, then we can call that "novel", even though everything needed to do it was p…

You laid out the theoretical limitations well, and I tend to agree with them.

I just get frustrated when people downplay how big of an impact filling in the gaps at the frontier of knowledge would have. 99.9% of researchers will never have an idea that adds a new spike to the knowledge frontier (rather than filling in holes), and 99.99% of research is just filling in gaps by combining existing ideas (numbers made up). In this realm, autoresearch may not be groundbreaking, but it can do the job. AlphaEvolve is similar.

If LLMs can actually get closer to something like that, it leaves human researchers a whole lot more time to focus on new ideas that could move entire fields forward. And their iteration speed can be a lot faster if AI agents can help with the implementation and testing of them.

Re: Yann LeCun raises $1B to build AI that understands the physical world

#514
post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems we're basically in agreement, not arguing! The only quibble I have is whether "feeling good" is the right way to describe how evolution has made us choose to engage in exploration/etc. I don't think it's quite as simple as evolution making things that are good for us feel good, and making things that are bad for us feel bad. There are a bunch of neurotransmitters and hormones that control how we behave. Evol…

When I said, "feel good/feel bad", I meant it as an umbrella term to cover all such positive/negative things. So back to the point, there is no inherent motivation for LLMs/Machines, because they cannot feel. Where does the ability to fee come from? No fukcing clue!

I'd say that motivation and feeling are largely unrelated.

We do what we do, not because of motivation, but because that what we've evolved to do.

Feeling really comes after the fact, or independent of it, when we're introspecting on what we've already done (courtesy of evolution), and how we feel about that, or how can we explain it!

There is tons of evidence that this is the way our brains work - we do things "because" then (if asked, or if thinking about it) concoct post-hoc explanations of why we did it. An example of this is split brain patients, where one half of the brain happily explains why the other half did what it did, despite there being no connection between the two (nor any subjective feeling by the patient that there is anything amiss with their brain)!

But sure, we have feelings, closely related to qualia you could say. It does "feel like something" to be depressed, or excited, or inspired, or whatever. I don't see any big mystery to this - our brain is able to self-observe and not surprisingly able to detect it's own varied patterns of operation (including ones induced by brain chemicals, natural or otherwise).

I presume where you may want to go with this is "but why does it feel like anything? why is there any subjective experience at all (and would a machine have it too)?", and I think the answer is that this is just an emergent property of having a cognitive apparatus capable of self-observation. We can already see the glimmerings of this in LLMs, maybe a bad example since their thoughts are derived from humans, but nonetheless LLMs self-report as if they are conscious, and have existential discussions about it on Moltbook. It's hard to imagine (to bring this back on topic) that LeCun's animal intelligence, basically something LLM-like that is trained from scratch (no baked in human knowledge) wouldn't report the exact same thing.

Re: Yann LeCun raises $1B to build AI that understands the physical world

#515
post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I said, "feel good/feel bad", I meant it as an umbrella term to cover all such positive/negative things. So back to the point, there is no inherent motivation for LLMs/Machines, because they cannot feel. Where does the ability to fee come from? No fukcing clue!

I'd say that motivation and feeling are largely unrelated. We do what we do, not because of motivation, but because that what we've evolved to do. Feeling really comes after the fact, or independent of it, when we're introspecting on what we've already done (courtesy of evolution), and how we feel about that, or how can we explain it! There is tons of evidence that this is the way our brains work - we do things "beca…

>We do what we do, not because of motivation

So you are saying a living thing will try to feed even if it does not feel hunger?

Re: Yann LeCun raises $1B to build AI that understands the physical world

#516
post #515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say that motivation and feeling are largely unrelated. We do what we do, not because of motivation, but because that what we've evolved to do. Feeling really comes after the fact, or independent of it, when we're introspecting on what we've already done (courtesy of evolution), and how we feel about that, or how can we explain it! There is tons of evidence that this is the way our brains work - we do things "beca…

>We do what we do, not because of motivation So you are saying a living thing will try to feed even if it does not feel hunger?

Sort of ... (depends on what you mean by "feel" - detects, or is consciously aware of)

I think the way this works is something like this:

1) Our body / brain will detect that we're low on energy and release neurotransmitters indicating this

2) Our body may also provide physical indications of hunger based on empty stomach

3) These hunger-detection (or i-should-eat) signals may directly trigger behavior patterns related to finding food. In a primitive animal or baby this may be direct (baby starts crying, mom provides food), and as a human adult it may include triggering past patterns of food finding (go to the kitchen) when we felt like this before

4) In parallel with 3), the evolutionally newer part of our brain will eventually recognize what's going on, and that we're feeling hungry, and if we haven't already done anything about it then we might make a more deliberate plan to do something about it "i'm hungry, should get some lunch, what will i have .."

So, I think it's a combination of 3) and 4).

I'd guess there are probably also some animals, maybe some humans, that feed instinctively, more or less all the time, and perhaps have more of an "i'm full, off switch" than an "i'm hungry, on switch".

I don't know - this is obviously partly guess work. Certainly if you ask someone in the kitchen grabbing a snack why they are doing it they will provide a post-hoc explanation of "i'm feeling hungry", even if the "decision" to do it was subconscious.

Re: Yann LeCun raises $1B to build AI that understands the physical world

#517
post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

33% of the business in a seed round is nuts

can you elaborate more, also isn't this necessary for a Lab that wants to compete with highly funded entities (like OpenAI, Anthropic)?

At this rate, with round 4, outside investors own 70% of company.

It’s not wrong, but unusual. Most seed round might be 10-20% of business. Your point on quantum of capital could be the disconnect for me.

Re: Yann LeCun raises $1B to build AI that understands the physical world

#518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have a pretty good answer to your questions, they are called IQ tests. It’s not like measuring intelligence is uncharted territory. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/i-gave-chatgpt-an... https://www.reddit.com/r/singularity/comments/1p5f0b1/gemini... Gemini 3 Pro has an IQ of 130 now but we keep moving the goalposts and being like “not THAT intelligence, we mean this other intelligence”. I suspect, and hi…

IQ tests are nonsense. The more IQ tests you take the better at them you get. And who is "we", you pretentious dirtbag.

https://g.co/gemini/share/2c358c58555f

That doesn’t make them invalid. Who takes IQ tests over and over?

Re: Yann LeCun raises $1B to build AI that understands the physical world

#519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IQ tests are nonsense. The more IQ tests you take the better at them you get. And who is "we", you pretentious dirtbag.

https://g.co/gemini/share/2c358c58555f That doesn’t make them invalid. Who takes IQ tests over and over?

You're missing my point. A test that you score better and better on each time isn't measuring intelligence, is it?

Re: Yann LeCun raises $1B to build AI that understands the physical world

#520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you asking how many books a large language model would need to read to learn a new language if it was only trained on a different language? probably just 1 (the dictionary)

Do you know anything about how languages work? A dictionary doesn't have sufficient information to speak a language.

Actually I do know how latent space works, If you meant achieving excellence in syntax and grammar then much like us more examples are better
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