Ireland shuts last coal plant, becomes 15th coal-free country in Europe (2025) • Hacker News Board

Re: Ireland shuts last coal plant, becomes 15th coal-free country in Europe (2025)

#511

Post by Qwertious » Mon, Mar 09, 2026, 9:14 PM UTC

htx80nerd wrote: post #334

cauliflower99 wrote: post #70

Irish man here - Over the last few years, we've graduated from providing cheap energy to now importing most of our energy. We've seen huge energy price increases as a result. We're seeing more and more cost-of-living protests, the war now means more will suffer with fuel prices and we're still going ahead with closing down energy suppliers (this is a 2025 article but the point still stands). To anyone praising these…

ChatGPT : "tell me about China use of coal energy" "China is by far the largest consumer and producer of coal in the world. Coal has historically been the backbone of China’s rapid industrialization and still plays a dominant role in its energy system." - ~55–60% of China’s electricity comes from coal (varies slightly year to year). - China consumes more coal than the rest of the world combined. - Annual consumption:…

Now ask it whether it produces more renewable energy than the rest of the world combined.

BREAKING NEWS: China is big.

Re: Ireland shuts last coal plant, becomes 15th coal-free country in Europe (2025)

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Post by gusgus01 » Mon, Mar 09, 2026, 9:14 PM UTC

hunterpayne wrote: post #507

bryanlarsen wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would only be true if solar panels had be trashed and repurchased every 6 months. But instead they last > 25 years, and can be recycled rather than trashed.

No, that's wishful thinking. You can have your own opinion, but not your own facts. Engineers actually calculate all this stuff. EROEI for instance means Energy Returned on Energy Invested. For renewables, its 4. That means under ideal conditions (albino of 1, 20 year lifetime), over the lifetime of the panel you get back 4x the energy that it took to extract the materials, make the panels and install them. So if you…

An of EROI of 4 would probably already include the poor sunlight conditions of Ireland or would be some old numbers based off old solar technology. Plus there's contention around EROI because it does ignore the fact that renewables can be recycled and many are used past their lifetimes, and of course it ignores the negative externalities of spewing the one time use fossil fuels into the atmosphere. There are plenty of studies and papers arguing over EROI and its veracity.

Re: Ireland shuts last coal plant, becomes 15th coal-free country in Europe (2025)

#513

Post by reillyse » Mon, Mar 09, 2026, 9:17 PM UTC

skywhopper wrote: post #461

redeeman wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

does this renewable policy of wind farms etc also extend to the rain forest being cut down for balsawood? or the landfilles the massive chunks of fiberglass coated wings then get put into? I guess we need a new planet when we're done filling it with junk and have depleted all the rain forest etc

Is your point that coal mining, transport, and usage have no negative externalities?

90% of the coal that was being used comes from Colombia, thats not really even that far guys and I'm sure it's mined under the most stringent environmental controls.

Re: Ireland shuts last coal plant, becomes 15th coal-free country in Europe (2025)

#514

Post by pydry » Mon, Mar 09, 2026, 9:17 PM UTC

Qwertious wrote: post #498

owenversteeg wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that the government should ensure low energy prices for industry, but Taiwan is a remarkably poor example. Taiwan's energy policy is, as far as I know, the most pants-on-head stupid of any country in the world. As anyone knows, they are a small island at constant risk of a sea blockade and yet rely on sea imports for 98% of their energy. Not only that, but they _had_ more domestic production (nuclear) that th…

Nuclear also relies on sea imports - nuclear fuel still needs to be imported, unless Taiwan has a uranium mine on the island. So nuclear doesn't solve the problem, it just kicks the can down the road.

Easier to stockpile uranium than oil or gas though.

Re: Ireland shuts last coal plant, becomes 15th coal-free country in Europe (2025)

#515

Post by PaulRobinson » Mon, Mar 09, 2026, 9:27 PM UTC

reedf1 wrote: post #27

No country will be truly coal-free until they are a net energy exporter and they do not import any goods that use coal-based energy in their supply chain. Europe has de-industrialized which means it has effectively exported its coal burden.

Great example of allowing perfect to be the enemy of good.

If major advanced economies are able to move their entire grid away from coal, it means the entire grid globally can move from coal.

"Ah", the critics say, "but manufacturing is so much more complex!"

Really? These are not countries without manufacturing. They have data centres stacked with the latest generation of Nvidia chips, electric rail, major capital cities, populations of millions...

... and of course, China agrees and is trying to move towards decarbonisation of their grid.

Yes, it'll take time, but it'll take even longer if you never start.

Re: Ireland shuts last coal plant, becomes 15th coal-free country in Europe (2025)

#516

Post by bryanlarsen » Mon, Mar 09, 2026, 9:30 PM UTC

hunterpayne wrote: post #507

bryanlarsen wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would only be true if solar panels had be trashed and repurchased every 6 months. But instead they last > 25 years, and can be recycled rather than trashed.

No, that's wishful thinking. You can have your own opinion, but not your own facts. Engineers actually calculate all this stuff. EROEI for instance means Energy Returned on Energy Invested. For renewables, its 4. That means under ideal conditions (albino of 1, 20 year lifetime), over the lifetime of the panel you get back 4x the energy that it took to extract the materials, make the panels and install them. So if you…

A quick Google shows EREOI of solar panels at 10-30 depending on study.

Re: Ireland shuts last coal plant, becomes 15th coal-free country in Europe (2025)

#517

Post by jahnu » Mon, Mar 09, 2026, 9:36 PM UTC

bluescrn wrote: post #296

jahnu wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This attitude is ill informed. Ireland is richer than it has ever been. Poverty and housing difficulties have nothing to do with reducing emissions. Ireland partly got rich by being a massive CO2 polluter per capita. Now we are rich it’s only fair we lead in transitioning to renewables. Renewables are cheaper now than most forms of energy production. Grids need investment. I despair at these short sighted and fairly…

> Ireland is richer than it has ever been. Isn't that more about big tech companies using Ireland as a tax dodge, rather than a sign of average people doing well? For less-well-off people, energy costs in the UK are a huge issue, they're more than twice what they were pre-Covid. Energy bills are second only to housing costs when it comes to the cost of living crisis. Although grocery price inflation/shrinkflation has…

Sorry I missed your question. While being a tax haven was part of Ireland’s strategy, given we have little natural resources for export or refining for heavy industries, we also have a well educated workforce which spoke English as a first language and were once cheaper than British workers and also, enthusiastically part of the EU. So we built up a service industry and high tech and high value industries like pharmaceutical and IT. We no longer are the (in my view once somewhat shameful) tax haven we were but now are low tax in a much more fair way (probably could be better but all countries are working the system). Opinions differ. But Ireland is genuinely wealthy and productive. We have serious problems with inequality and a stupid housing problem in the bigger cities. Nevertheless, compared to most of the world and compared to the Ireland of my youth it’s a great if imperfect place where you can have a great quality of life.

Re: Ireland shuts last coal plant, becomes 15th coal-free country in Europe (2025)

#518

Post by gotwaz » Mon, Mar 09, 2026, 9:38 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #216

Imustaskforhelp wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Batteries are cheaper and faster to make in large quantities. Yes I agree but their extraction at scale is still very C02 Expensive. > No economy on the planet needs 24/7 peak power production. The times humans work correspond nicely with the times the sun is out. With Nuclear energy, let's face it. If you have a nuclear plant running, the input is just some uranium which we have plenty of. Thereotically we have no…

> You are also forgetting that Sun can be blocked during times of rains and Wind is unpredictable as well. We already have wires that cross continents to smooth out supply variations. It's exceedingly rare you get no sun and no wind over entire continents for an extended period. > You are forgetting that markets operate after work and the late night culture and so many other things. I'm not forgetting it, they just u…

Its not just about enough sun and wind capacity. There is already over supply in lot of the world. But the supply curve doesnt match the daily DYNAMIC demand curve so grid ops still dependent on coal and gas for different reasons. It becomes about what happens during unpredicted demand spikes, or when congestion on those wires happens whose load gets priority? which producers get curtailed? etc etc That moves probs into the political domain. You can watch daily grid ops live and see the probs. Wars and the weather randomly take down wires and substations all the time. If you can move people and factories to follow the wind and the sun then maybe you get demand and supply curves to match easier.

Re: Ireland shuts last coal plant, becomes 15th coal-free country in Europe (2025)

#519

Post by triceratops » Mon, Mar 09, 2026, 9:42 PM UTC

cbeach wrote: post #509

p_j_w wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And they're often disingenously included in fossil fuel pricing to claim that green energy is fundamentally cheaper. There’s nothing unreasonable about this: fossil fuels have huge costs associated with them that are invisible to the consumer. They’ve just been getting pushed off onto other people forever.

By all means, calculate an arbitrary uplift on the price based on your own definitions of externalities. But don't expect me to take you seriously when you directly compare a raw price of renewable energy with an uplifted price of fossil fuels. Especially when your quoted price for renewable energy ignores the cost of grid upgrades, storage infrastructure, and externalities associated with mining materials to manufac…

> externalities associated with mining materials to manufactur solar panels and wind turbine

Solar panels can be recycled, so eventually they will need very little mining.

Have you ever recycled gasoline? Have you ever heard of the Deepwater Horizon?

I think you're being disingenuous while accusing others.

Re: Ireland shuts last coal plant, becomes 15th coal-free country in Europe (2025)

#520

Post by munk-a » Mon, Mar 09, 2026, 9:43 PM UTC

bell-cot wrote: post #459

runarberg wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Iceland (never used coal to my knowledge) is missing from the list.

Iceland's situation - tiny population, geothermal paradise - may be difficult for 99% of the world's countries to replicate.

The US is in an excellent position to massively harness wind and solar and yet right now it's dialing up the coal usage. I am comfortable celebrating Iceland's decision to not be maliciously dependent on fossil fuels.