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Nobody gets promoted for simplicity

terriblesoftware.org

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Re: Nobody gets promoted for simplicity

#511

Post by john_strinlai »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #494
john_strinlai wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

remember that we already did the "Excellent answer, that is what I would do as well, now what if we wanted to build it in-house?" part. the "good answer" was already acknowledged, the "real-world scenario" answer was accepted. the second part ("what if we wanted to build it in-house") is purely hypothetical to gauge how the interviewee would approach the specific technical challenge (shedding some of the "real-world"…

Depends on the dyanmic. If you have an excellent candidate you're trying to poach, it becomes an intervewing problem because you're wasting both you and their time. If they are a dime a dozen, then it becomes their problem. Whether or not they care it's their problem depends on their circumstance.

im sorry but i do not understand any of your comment.

>it becomes an intervewing problem because you're wasting both you and their time.

how is it a waste of time to ask a technical question in an interview?

>If you have an excellent candidate [...] If they are a dime a dozen

how do you determine if they are an excellent candidate or an average one without asking any technical questions in the interview?

>Whether or not they care it's their problem depends on their circumstance.

care about getting the job? why would they interview if they didnt care about getting the job?

Re: Nobody gets promoted for simplicity

#512

Post by taeric »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #481
taeric wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I confess I assumed that the spirit of that award was more in "using what you have" than it was in making a simpler solution? They definitely over indexed on how clever the door desks were, though. It is funny how much people assume quality from appearances, though. Same for costs.

There was/is a Home Depot and an Ikea equidistant from every Seattle amzn location. Bezos just though the door desk was "cool", and didn't both to cost compare with Ikea till after many of the door desks had been built. They were undoubtedly stronger than the Ikea equivalent, but that is unlikely to ever have been an issue.

Agreed on the strength. I used to get annoyed with friends lambasting ikea furniture as not as strong as some custom built options. Nevermind they were strong enough for what they were designed for.

Hilarious that cool factor won him over years ago. Not even a dig at him, really. Yet more evidence that we can all fall for that.

Re: Nobody gets promoted for simplicity

#513

Post by btilly »

dmurray wrote: post #400
btilly wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, the simple answer is not so simple within Google. The issue is that Google achieves reliability by insisting on n+2/n+1. Globally your service is in at least 2 more data centers than is required for full load. In each region in at least 1 more data center than is required for full load. If you're using the Google toolchain, all of the scalability and fallover problems are automatically handled by the laye…

If you're interviewing at Google, the expected answer to the interview question can't be to use Google's internal tools. "Use Postgres" is the standardized, understandable answer for anyone outside Google who needs to solve Postgres-shaped and Postgres-sized problems.

No, that can't be the expected answer. And indeed, use Postgres was an accepted answer.

But when the interviewer keeps pushing back, that's an invitation for the candidate to ask why, and ask what about the environment might make that not a good fit within Google. Doing that gives a stronger hire signal.

Re: Nobody gets promoted for simplicity

#515

Post by maccard »

john_strinlai wrote: post #511
johnnyanmac wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on the dyanmic. If you have an excellent candidate you're trying to poach, it becomes an intervewing problem because you're wasting both you and their time. If they are a dime a dozen, then it becomes their problem. Whether or not they care it's their problem depends on their circumstance.

im sorry but i do not understand any of your comment. > it becomes an intervewing problem because you're wasting both you and their time. how is it a waste of time to ask a technical question in an interview? > If you have an excellent candidate [...] If they are a dime a dozen how do you determine if they are an excellent candidate or an average one without asking any technical questions in the interview? > Whether…

I'm not OP but - an interview typically has a power imbalance. They have a job and you want the job, therefore the balance tips in their favor. If the candidate is a headhunted candidate (imagine a video game studio trying to hire a creative director from another studio) rather than a cold application, then the power is flipped and the company is trying to convince the candidate to join them.

Re: Nobody gets promoted for simplicity

#516

Post by wpietri »

maccard wrote: post #489
wpietri wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I ask an interviewee a technical question, what I want is an answer that is correct technically. If I want them to give me a different kind of technical answer, then I think it's on me to ask a question that actually requires what I'm looking for. It's not hard! All the Stripe interviewer had to say is, "Ok, great. It sounds like you have a good sense for system capacity. Now let's add another zero to all the lo…

> I am, just to be clear, not defending people being willfully obtuse or contrary jackasses The comment I replied to said: > "now what if we wanted to build it in-house?" > "Well I would probably go home and work on my resume because that's a fool's errand." That’s not a different kind of correct, that’s just being a jackass.

I read that as being his emotional reaction, not something he'd say in an interview context. This being an internet forum and all.

What I think he's sincere about is not wanting to work at a place that builds unnecessary stuff. And if people are asking for answers that require building unnecessary stuff, I think it's a reasonable inference that the place is not right for him.

I think interviewing is always a two-way street. If I got the feel that a place was going to have a lot of over-complicated code for me to deal with, or expected a lot of status-driven deference against actual user and business need, I wouldn't just give an interview-ending tart reply. But I would politely finish out the interview and then write them off unless there were other signals that redeemed the bad interview questions.

Re: Nobody gets promoted for simplicity

#517

Post by fluidcruft »

bitmasher9 wrote: post #509
fluidcruft wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends sometimes it's currently 1hr/month but more frequently and a dashboard would add value to the enterprise.

In an interview setting this is such obvious bait to see if the person will ask more questions or go straight into making a solution.

That would be my assumption, too.

Re: Nobody gets promoted for simplicity

#518

Post by dilyevsky »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #497
dilyevsky wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It takes a lot of practice to become good interviewer and majority of ICs especially at small shops never get the required mileage. I don't think i really knew what i was doing until like 100 sessions in...

That's a good part of why I want to stay in the IC track. I don't care about having the power to hire/fire people. That's a manager/lead skill in my eyes. Maybe we have a small conversation with candidates, but I see no reason I need to be quizing people on their talents.

> That's a manager/lead skill in my eyes.

Every place i've seen where management fully usurped hiring had teams rapidly stacked with extremely poor performers. Not surprisingly so.

Moreover, the days when you as an IC can sit quietly in a corner and churn out code from coffee and jira tickets are rapidly coming to an end. I would highly recommend focusing on those other parts of the job if you're not planning to retire soon, and hiring is part of your job as an SME, misplaced humility notwithstanding.

Re: Nobody gets promoted for simplicity

#519

Post by dilyevsky »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #508
johnnyanmac wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a good part of why I want to stay in the IC track. I don't care about having the power to hire/fire people. That's a manager/lead skill in my eyes. Maybe we have a small conversation with candidates, but I see no reason I need to be quizing people on their talents.

It's almost as if we're saying your resume means NOTHING. I have thought about how to solve this, and my brain comes up with some LinkedIn alternative specifically driven by developers vouching for other developers.

Your resume does mean nothing because anyone can just put anything on it. Sounds like you're basically reinventing reference checks from first principles

Re: Nobody gets promoted for simplicity

#520

Post by johnnyanmac »

dilyevsky wrote: post #519
giancarlostoro wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's almost as if we're saying your resume means NOTHING. I have thought about how to solve this, and my brain comes up with some LinkedIn alternative specifically driven by developers vouching for other developers.

Your resume does mean nothing because anyone can just put anything on it. Sounds like you're basically reinventing reference checks from first principles

Its almost like we have 3-5+ rounds of interviews for some reason.

Meanwhile, I'm sure a 20 minute conversation can weed out 90+% of fake resumes. If the resume was the problem when hiring practices wouldn't be so optimized around trying to find the perfect resume.

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