Live data from Hacker News

The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

cnn.com

511–520 of 1001 posts

Re: The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

#511

The take home message from this is that the only way for any country to be secure is to have nuclear weapons.

Considering the rationale for this war that kind of seems false

> Considering the rationale for this war that kind of seems false

The spring to a nuke is riskier than ever. That doesn't change that nuclear sovereignty is a tier above the regular kind, this is something every one of the global powers (China, Russia and America) and most regional powers (Israel) have explicilty endorsed.

Re: The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

#512

I'm surprised this has not been mentioned, for context: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2026_Iran_massacres

Are you saying those protested actually got funded by Israel and because Iran killed them, now Israel is retaliating? Now I really wonder if those protests were indeed fueled and funded by Israel, because we have seen videos of mosques being burned down by protestors, which is strange for Shia Muslim country, even if they don't like their government

"A 2020 Online Survey by Gamaan found that 8.8% Iranians identifying as Atheist and a large fraction (22.2%) identifying as not following an organized religion and only 40% self identified as Muslims."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secularism_in_Iran

Re: The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

#513

I'm surprised this has not been mentioned, for context: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2026_Iran_massacres

Maybe because nobody believes in the "exporting democracy" excuse anymore

> nobody believes in the "exporting democracy" excuse

Has this been argued?

Re: The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

#514

I am just befuddled by how much of this violence is directly motivated by religious concerns, both on the side of Iran and on the side of Israel and USA. I have been reading on the topic of shunyata or emptiness in Mahayana Buddhism, and have been uncomfortably observing just how much of the artifacts we take to be real and substantial in the world are just "made up". They don't have an inherent reality of their own…

> I am just befuddled by how much of this violence is directly motivated by religious concerns, both on the side of Iran and on the side of Israel and USA.

This just isn't true. Religion is never the reason for these conflicts. It's the excuse. It's how that conflict is sold to the rest of the world. It's how civilians are manipulated into dying in a conflict.

The source of these conflicts is always material. Always.

Reagan's Secretary of State, General Alexander Haig once said [1]:

> Israel is the largest American aircraft carrier in the world that cannot be sunk, does not carry even one American soldier, and is located in a critical region for American national security.

In 1986, then Senator and future president Joe Biden said [2]:

> [Israel] is the best $3 billion ivnestment we make. Were there not an Israel, the United States of America would have to an invent an Israel to protect her interest in the region.

Much of US Middle East polciy was aimed to sabotaging and undermining Pan-Arab Nationalism (particularly under then Egyptian President Nasser) [3].

Nothing about any of this has anything to do with faith. In this case it's about oil.

Whatever crimes you think Iran might've done, I'll stack up the US crimes against Iran and it won't even be close, including:

1. Iran was a liberal democracy that the US deposed in 1953 at the behest of the British because BP didn't want to have to pay higher royalties, ultimately leading Mossadegh wanting to "nationalize" their own oil;

2. In 1978, then US-puppet Saddam Hussein expelled Khomenei from Iraq. This was about the time the US realized that Iran was likely lost. it is believed that the reason for this was that a fundamentalist regime was preferred to a Communist one (which was otherwise the likely outcome) as the US didn't want Iran to fall into the Soviet sphere of influence. So all this pearl-clutching about the current regime rings hollow when you realize the US helped created it;

3. As punishment for the Revolution, the US supplied weapons to Iraq and fueled the Iran-Iraq war for almost a decade that killed over a million people; and

4. Crippling economic sanctions, which is a fancy way of saying "starving people and denying them medical care", for daring not to be a US puppet.

If you point me to any conflict you think is based on faith, I'll show you the material interests behind it.

[1]: https://archive.ph/tMTBd

[2]: https://www.c-span.org/clip/senate-highlight/user-clip-joe-b...

[3]: https://history.state.gov/historicaldocuments/frus1958-60v12...

Re: The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

#515

The president of peace btw. I'm baffled at the lack of calls to boycott the Fifa world cup in US. And at the double standards applied to Russians and Israelis in their wars of aggression. I guess Israel can play the "October 7th" card at least which was an insane horror.

[flagged]

"We haven't killed as many as the totalitarian religious fundamentalists" is a really shitty justification for your behavior.

Re: The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

#516

The president of peace btw. I'm baffled at the lack of calls to boycott the Fifa world cup in US. And at the double standards applied to Russians and Israelis in their wars of aggression. I guess Israel can play the "October 7th" card at least which was an insane horror.

if he has no consequences for this, and he won't

it would be very bad to be Cuba right now

considering when the midterms are and about how long it would take afterwards to move all the ships

I mean why would he stop with Iran?

All of the US is now a "constitution-free zone"

Re: The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

#518

The president of peace btw. I'm baffled at the lack of calls to boycott the Fifa world cup in US. And at the double standards applied to Russians and Israelis in their wars of aggression. I guess Israel can play the "October 7th" card at least which was an insane horror.

Do Americans even read or care about Constitution anymore?

Congress declares War.

Even Bush sought out Congressional approval and had a resolution passed before invading Iraq.

These guys are speed running the fascist playbook. Disregarding laws is one step.

Re: The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

#519

Are all our foreign policy decisions now made in Tel Aviv to suit Israel?

Sure seems that way. I don't really see how this military action is justified from a US perspective. Or even from an Israeli one. The most likely justification is that the leadership of the US and Israel are a little bit unhinged and want a war to distract from domestic issues.

Well, it's plausibly justified because the US considers a strong regional ally like Israel a valuable asset to have in the Middle East and if Israel is a regional hegemon [1] then all the better.

There have been many arguments that the US' support of Israel goes against US interests [2], but that really makes no sense. It's not just Trump who has to be convinced to start a war for Israel, it's the entire defense establishment in the US.

And also in Israel. If fighting half a dozen wars all at once was really that bad for Israel, surely, someone would have put a stop in it.

Surely.

_____________

[1] Got that term from J. Mearsheimer, if you were wondering.

[2] Particularly the Tucker Carlson - Judge Napolitano - Col. Daniel Davies continuum of mostly conservative podcast hosts. Or those are the ones I follow closely anyway. They're all convinced it's all "because of the lobby".

Re: The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

#520

I am just befuddled by how much of this violence is directly motivated by religious concerns, both on the side of Iran and on the side of Israel and USA. I have been reading on the topic of shunyata or emptiness in Mahayana Buddhism, and have been uncomfortably observing just how much of the artifacts we take to be real and substantial in the world are just "made up". They don't have an inherent reality of their own…

It's not said in polite company, but Israeli concerns are racial, not religious. If you meet a Jewish zionist, then you've also met an athiest. An explanation of Christian Zionism deserves much longer discussion than can be made here, but how and why such an obvious contradiction to Jesus' ministry gained popularity is something worth studying.
Post reply on HN