Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Hetzner Prices increase 30-40%

docs.hetzner.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

511–520 of 662 posts

Re: Hetzner Prices increase 30-40%

#511

Post by JasonADrury »

maxglute wrote: post #508
JasonADrury wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except shipping from China really isn't cheaper than shipping within EU. You just do it from a reasonable hub, or get a third party to handle this for you. Look at how The Hut Group handles logistics for MyProtein for example.

>You just do it from a reasonable hub That's not reasonable condition, hence why EU is systemically more expensive. THG logistics looks like warehouse->dispatch, i.e. it's for vendors of certain size that can prestock at regional warehouse. Private last mile always fast. But it doesn't address first mile to hub. Can a bumfuck workshop in a hamlet deliver in Greece deliver to warehouse in Poland across multiple jurisd…

> But it doesn't address first mile to hub. Can a bumfuck workshop in a hamlet deliver in Greece deliver to warehouse in Poland across multiple jurisdictions for peanuts?

Yes, unless they're doing so at a ludicrously small scale. Sending a 20t lorry load from Thessaloniki to Warsaw will cost less than 6000 euros. I suspect it can be done for around 2400, but I don't know the route very well.

>My understanding is EU first mile is fragmented/slow if you rely on national post and expensive if you rely on private couriers.

Yes, it sucks at ultra-small scale. But that's really what that is. The private couriers have super attractive volume pricing, even 80% off public (consumer facing) rates isn't unusual.

Re: Hetzner Prices increase 30-40%

#512

Post by nutjob2 »

SR2Z wrote: post #424
nutjob2 wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An example of unregulated market is where I come to your house and put a gun to your head and in exchange for not pulling the trigger you give me your various items of value. That's one form of trading with your neighbor.

An unrelated market is an oxymoron. You could come to my house and put a gun to my head, but that's not a consensual trade. That's just thuggery; the point of a market is that both sides benefit from trade. For markets to exist, property rights also need to be respected.

The gun was an analogy and the comment satire, but the thuggery is real and the weapon is money.

For markets to exist they indeed need to be regulated and when they aren't you get something other than a market, you get thuggery.

Re: Hetzner Prices increase 30-40%

#514

Post by rm30 »

pyrale wrote: post #479
rm30 wrote: post #290

Western memory manufacturers decided to chase the AI bubble, abandoning the consumer and low-requirement markets entirely. Chinese manufacturers are now capturing that entire segment with full vertical integration. When this bubble stabilizes, because it will (it's not going to grow to infinite), Western companies won't recapture those markets. They've already ceded competitive advantage for the next decade. This is…

You're speaking like Hetzner is raising prices to fund Nvidia-laden datacenters, while in fact they're mostly providing cheap servers and their growth is mostly happening because of US admin's insanity. Memory is going up for everyone, dude. And the people moving to Hetzner aren't exiting US clouds to leave for chinese ones.

Look at Chinese smartphone brands: Xiaomi, OnePlus took their slice from Samsung.

Same pattern will play out with RAM and SSD. In 3-5 years, it won't be 'Samsung' on the label, it'll be 'Li Tech' or equivalent.

Western manufacturers ceded the market through strategic choice; Chinese companies are filling it systematically.

Re: Hetzner Prices increase 30-40%

#515

Post by input_sh »

direwolf20 wrote: post #481
input_sh wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "in any meaningful capacity" Building a factory is one thing, they can have 50 of them built, but that doesn't mean much if all 50 together amount to like 0.1% of the company's output. Once those factories scale up to 1-2%, then we can start considering that they've actually built a domestic supply, but that's a whole different goal than simply building the factories. Building factories is trivial. Making them outp…

Are you sure? I'd think producing any RAM chips at all is much harder than scaling up a working production process.

Yes, I'm pretty confident you don't know anything about manufacturing at scale.

Say you use a magic wand and build 15 new state-of-the-art factories tomorrow. Who's gonna run them? Does any location in the US have enough qualified workers that can simply take over and produce RAM in them from day 1 with no major fuckups?

No, you need a ton of time to teach thousands of people how to run those 15 factories. To even begin to teach people, you need to have 1 factory up and running. That 1 factory is at first going to be run by some of their existent workforce that they temporarily migrate from South Asia. Only then can they start to teach local populace how to run those factories on their own.

This is why it's much cheaper to simply build an additional one in South Asia than it is to build more than one in a whole new location. South Asia already has a bunch of workers that know what they're doing because they've been doing it for a long time. Build a new factory, promote some of your existent workforce up the chain, fill the lowest positions with fresh graduates that are gonna be equally good every year and you're good to go. It's nowhere near that simple in a brand new location, where even the most optimistic scenario would take longer than a decade to produce a meaningful amount of output.

Re: Hetzner Prices increase 30-40%

#516

Post by eggsome »

bayindirh wrote: post #249
spockz wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a silent hope that because of this change we all will get ECC ram and that consumer CPUs will get proper support for them.

AMD's RYZEN already supports it. ASUStor's latest generation of NAS devices come with AMD x86_64 processors and ECC RAM as a standard, but ECC RAM in SODIMM format was not cheap, even when the RAM was cheap, either.

As someone trying to spec out a Ryzen workstation right now I can tell you it's actually harder because Ryzen (unlike EPIC) uses UDIMM ECC, not RDIMM ECC. It's a niche that very few companies wanted to service before AI ram madness. Now the only vendor I can find is v-color:

https://v-color.net/products/ddr5-ecc-oc-u-dimm-server-memor...

But they no longer have 6000mhz stuff in stock (which is ideal for Ryzen due to the 1 to 1 speed match to the memory controller).

It's frustrating :(

Re: Hetzner Prices increase 30-40%

#517

Post by jacquesm »

layer8 wrote: post #367
rayiner wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn’t make sense either. How is it a burden to pay the market price for something?

OpenAI didn’t pay what is now the market price, while stockpiling wafers.

That's ok, when they eventually go bust we'll have a nice glut.

Re: Hetzner Prices increase 30-40%

#518

Post by wiredpancake »

spockz wrote: post #465
bayindirh wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AMD's RYZEN already supports it. ASUStor's latest generation of NAS devices come with AMD x86_64 processors and ECC RAM as a standard, but ECC RAM in SODIMM format was not cheap, even when the RAM was cheap, either.

I understood that support for ECC ram also depended on the motherboard but not sure. When selecting Ryzens, I only recall seeing many disclaimers for RAM support. Not sure to the causes though.

[dead]

Re: Hetzner Prices increase 30-40%

#519

Post by ethbr1 »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #496
alexgieg wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chinese planning revolves around mastering a technology no matter the cost, then monopolozing the global market no matter the cost, then bankrupting existing foreigner competitors or entirely preventing them from arising in the first place no matter the cost, to only then caring about costs and to start profiting from it all.

Chinese strategy of monopolizing markets via low prices is strange, it has no moat, they win simply because they provide the best value. I mean, its great for us, I’m all for it, but it doesn’t have an end game where they can actually ever set prices.

They win because it leverages their strategic asset: a vast labor pool.

Right now they're trying to avoid the other side of that coin (low value trap) by integrating vertically.

Re: Hetzner Prices increase 30-40%

#520

Post by wiredpancake »

embedding-shape wrote: post #210
gck1 wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's an easy experiment to conduct: look around the room at your home and count all the devices that have a CPU, RAM, SSD or HDD. Then take a look at your bank statement to see what are the services you pay for monthly that also require the same hardware. Now, imagine that these devices or services can no longer procure RAM, SSD or HDD. There's no more available supply for these components, because this is what's h…

> imagine that these devices or services can no longer procure RAM, SSD or HDD Why would I imagine something so far out from what will realistically happen? Again, a lot of doom and gloom over very unrealistic scenarios. Where are you even getting this from, YouTube channels? Of course if there is no RAM or flash-storage at all available, eventually hardware will be unfeasible. But when we've experienced these sort o…

[dead]
Post reply on HN