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TikTok's 'addictive design' found to be illegal in Europe

nytimes.com

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Re: TikTok's 'addictive design' found to be illegal in Europe

#511

Post by direwolf20 »

wasmainiac wrote: post #163
eggy wrote: post #71

I'm skeptical about banning design patterns just because people might overuse them. Growing up, I had to go to the theater to see movies, but that didn't make cliffhangers and sequels any less compelling. Now we binge entire Netflix series and that's fine, but short-form video needs government intervention? The real question is: where do we draw the line between protecting people from manipulative design and respecti…

> didn't make cliffhangers and sequels any less compelling Apples to oranges. I can’t make meth in my basement as a precursor to some other drug then complain that my target product had a shitty design. Real life experience shows that TikTok is harmfully addictive and therefore it must be controlled to prevent negative social outcomes. It’s not rocket science, we have to be pragmatic based on real life experience, no…

You're right about the pragmatism but I don't get the meth analogy.

Re: TikTok's 'addictive design' found to be illegal in Europe

#512

Post by direwolf20 »

grayhatter wrote: post #197
eggy wrote: post #71

I'm skeptical about banning design patterns just because people might overuse them. Growing up, I had to go to the theater to see movies, but that didn't make cliffhangers and sequels any less compelling. Now we binge entire Netflix series and that's fine, but short-form video needs government intervention? The real question is: where do we draw the line between protecting people from manipulative design and respecti…

> I'm skeptical about banning design patterns just because people might overuse them. I used to be opposed, now I'm not. I strongly believe human specialization is the important niche humans have adapted, and that should be encouraged. Another equally significant part of human nature is, trust and gullibility. People will abuse these aspects of human nature to give themselves an unfair advantage. If you believe lying…

etoh in this comment means ethanol, EtOH for short. The other bar sometimes serves methanol which makes people drunk but is severely toxic and makes people go blind.

Re: TikTok's 'addictive design' found to be illegal in Europe

#513

Post by direwolf20 »

DaanDL wrote: post #143
eggy wrote: post #71

I'm skeptical about banning design patterns just because people might overuse them. Growing up, I had to go to the theater to see movies, but that didn't make cliffhangers and sequels any less compelling. Now we binge entire Netflix series and that's fine, but short-form video needs government intervention? The real question is: where do we draw the line between protecting people from manipulative design and respecti…

What an unworldly remark. So, we should also not ban hard-drugs then?

Possession and use should not be illegal. If you believe in regulation of this style, only dealing should be illegal.

Re: TikTok's 'addictive design' found to be illegal in Europe

#514

Post by rkomorn »

direwolf20 wrote: post #504
morshu9001 wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not because EU countries want people to make their own decisions, it's because not so many people in EU think alcohol is bad for kids.

And that's because they're much more responsible with alcohol. Americans get introduced to alcohol as a rebellion from oppression the moment they go to college. Germans have it with dinner with their parents sometimes when they're 12. It's like how Facebook got boring when your parents were on it.

Anecdata, but I don't remember my high school friends in Europe being much more (if at all) responsible with alcohol than my US friends were when I went to college there.

They just started getting blackout drunk 3 years earlier.

Re: TikTok's 'addictive design' found to be illegal in Europe

#515

Post by direwolf20 »

rektomatic wrote: post #151
DaanDL wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What an unworldly remark. So, we should also not ban hard-drugs then?

are hard-drugs a design pattern?

Why should something not be banned just because it's a design pattern?

In fact hard drugs are a pattern. There's no molecular fragment that makes something a hard drug. It's a label we apply based on patterns. Not design patterns though since drugs are discovered not designed.

In fact we do ban design patterns of drugs. There used to be an industry of slightly altering an illegal drug so it would have the same effect without being the banned chemical. They banned this by banning design patterns: no tryptamines with psychedelic effects, etc.

Re: TikTok's 'addictive design' found to be illegal in Europe

#516

Post by Forgeties79 »

boelboel wrote: post #468
Forgeties79 wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

4chan is only outdone by 8chan. “It’s only concentrated on certain boards” is the same lame excuse Reddit used to ignore /r/thedonald and now /r/conservative.

4chan doesn't use algorithms to push users to certain boards afaik, makes it better than the others in its design. I'm not arguing 4chan is great but it's not nearly as impactful as Facebook, Twitter or TikTok in creating extremism.

So you believe 4chan (and its cousin boards) didn’t/dont foster extremism?

Re: TikTok's 'addictive design' found to be illegal in Europe

#517

Post by direwolf20 »

hi5eyes wrote: post #324
Retr0id wrote: post #51

The press release: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_26_... > At this stage, the Commission considers that TikTok needs to change the basic design of its service. For instance, by disabling key addictive features such as ‘infinite scroll' over time, implementing effective ‘screen time breaks', including during the night, and adapting its recommender system. Most of these seem concretely doable,…

the subtext here is the eu is just teeing up to fine tiktok, x and other social media

X knowingly created and distributed child porn. A fine isn't enough, they need to issue an Interpol warrant for Elon.

Re: TikTok's 'addictive design' found to be illegal in Europe

#518

Post by direwolf20 »

SoftTalker wrote: post #56
llbbdd wrote: post #47

Idk how to feel about this specifically but I kind of hope they come for Duolingo next. They are up to some similar mind hacking shit to keep people from leaving. There's the downright abusive streak management tactics that have become a major part of their brand and PR, and the lesson plans seem designed to plateau to prevent you from actually getting proficient enough in a language to ever unsub. They reset your cl…

This is pretty much everything in business these days. Medicine too. Nobody is interested in solving your problems for a price. They are interested in selling you a never-ending service or subscription that you pay for over and over.

Do you have a cure for cancer?

Re: TikTok's 'addictive design' found to be illegal in Europe

#519

Post by direwolf20 »

comboy wrote: post #341

I'm too late but I'm surprised HN crowd treats tiktok as some weaponized addiction machine. Youtube used to have a working recommendation system and it was usable too. Is it really bad to give me woodworking and learning chinese videos if that's what I'm interested in at the moment? If somebody is not interested in anything specific and just want to zone out, is it really different if he scrolls through tiktok or wat…

YouTube has the property of giving you several videos to choose from next.

Re: TikTok's 'addictive design' found to be illegal in Europe

#520

Post by direwolf20 »

arethuza wrote: post #205
Ylpertnodi wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reddit once told me to take a break (i was on the sick for a foot injury). So I did. I now check in once a week, for one hour, max. Ahhh, creatures of habit, that we are.

On YouTube I seem to mostly get ads for gambling apps that emphasise the controls and safety measures they have. I've never gambled let along used a gambling app.

Of course they emphasize those. Apparently if you actually sign up, they're all fake.
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