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Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

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Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#511
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hate on antidepressants is not because they're not effective, but rather that they're abused by psychiatrists. Ideally, a professional will prescribe them as a necessary helper to becoming (more) mentally healthy whilst tackling the root cause. Most of the time however, it's more of a "here, take these indefinitely". It's like if we took sleeping pills every time we had trouble sleeping. Having said that, I just…

Agree. But sometimes there is no "root cause", the brain is still a mystery. If you had been depressed even when you knew there was nothing to worry about, you would see it differently, because then you deduce that the black cloud is produced within. Chemistry trumps psychology. Good enough chemistry enables cognitive treatments. But to fix the wrong chemistry you need chemistry.

> Chemistry trumps psychology. Good enough chemistry enables cognitive treatments. But to fix the wrong chemistry you need chemistry.

It's not at all clear that chemistry is the root issue. The brain is a synaptic graph that does something. Some graphs can have weird paths that lead to pathologies (maybe bad feedback loops). Chemistry seems like fairly a blunt instrument for bludgeoning a "bad" graph into one that's "better".

Forced habits, like cognitive exercises from psychology, can sometimes rewire the graph by themselves because that's how the brain learns/adapts, but we still don't have a good grasp on how to do this truly effectively in many cases.

That said, the blunt instrument of chemistry can sometimes be useful, particularly if it enhances neuroplasticity, as I think psychedelic research is beginning to show.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's incredibly reductive. I'm sure some people's depression can boil down to a matter of perspective, but it's naive to extrapolate that to everyone with depression. I'm incredibly optimistic and am content with my position in life. My default state is being mindful of the present and I don't think about things too far into the future. I very rarely ever feel stressed out over things in life. However, none of that…

If its not just a matter of perspective and only medication can help, etc, then why do we call depression a "psychological" or "mental health" concern? Why isn't it just considered a neurological disease?

Depression is increasingly starting to be seen as a neurobiological disorder as we learn more.

In my own opinion, we need to stop viewing "mental health" as a separate class of conditions from general/physical health. A mental illness is a health/medical condition just like any other and shifting our views and diagnostic criteria in that direction would do a lot to remove the stigma associated with mental illness.

Someone with depression has a chronic illness, not a temporary "it's just in your head" condition.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#513

Because it's common to hate on antidepressants, I've always personally had a bias against them. For the past 15-20 years, november thru february are basically a writeoff due for me due to seasonal affective disorder. Cold showers, exercise, no alcohol, strict sleeping rituals. Vitamin d. I can still sleep 11 hours and feel like reheated cat shit. Enter citalopram. "It will take up to six weeks to dial in" they said.…

What dosage of Citalopram? 40 mg/day? (Roughly equivalent to Lexapro 15mg/day; Saffron 30 mg/day if Crocin+Safranal properly standardized)

10 mg a day, down from 20 but that made me feel wired, like I ate a bunch of 9V batteries for breakfast. Big pupils, trouble sleeping, manic thoughts, the works.

I'm a small, generally sensitive guy so ymmv...

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#514

Because it's common to hate on antidepressants, I've always personally had a bias against them. For the past 15-20 years, november thru february are basically a writeoff due for me due to seasonal affective disorder. Cold showers, exercise, no alcohol, strict sleeping rituals. Vitamin d. I can still sleep 11 hours and feel like reheated cat shit. Enter citalopram. "It will take up to six weeks to dial in" they said.…

Do you take the citalopram year round, then?

This is my first year, doc told me to wait until at least march, April to start talking about tapering. I have zero symptoms in summer, so I'm inclined to get off them outside the darkest months... we'll see how bad the discontinuation syndrome hits.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> " There is no convincing evidence that depression is caused by serotonin abnormalities " - https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/insight-therapy/2022... and > " the etiology of depression is incredibly complex, the narrative that it is caused by a simple “chemical imbalance” persists in lay settings. We sought to understand where people are exposed to this explanation " - https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC…

I didn’t say it was simply that. You’re twisting my words and these studies to discount all of behavioral health.

Yes you did. No I'm not.

(I've written paragraphs and paragraphs thinking through some of my views in this thread. You wrote three words naming a thing which doesn't seem to exist. If you want more engagement, engage more. What words am I twisting? Where did you say it was anything more detailed than that? What behaviour that people "can't control alone" are you talking about?)

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or the addiction just makes you think that this is good for you when actually you'd feel better without it?

It's the smell, texture and taste of coffee I love, not really the caffeine. I tried decaf, doesn't taste the same.

Find better decaf. Caffeine has no taste.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone that falls on the side of “depression is real and antidepressants can help” it is very clear that there are people in this thread that need to hold their tongues because they know not of what they speak. (Not you OP) There are some forms of depression that you cannot think or act your way out of. If you haven’t experienced that, I promise that you do not understand what it is like. You cannot really unders…

The placebo effect is a statistical reporting effect. Not a physical effect.

Somaticizers absolutely will change their behavior in response to a placebo.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#518
post #152
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not just switching to "decaf" (which isn't) Going to argue here, this is wildly bad advice. Decaf practically has no caffeine, it has 2-7 mg from what I can tell which is less then chocolate. 2-7mg is like impossible to notice and might aswell be water with how little there is.

Agree, althouh quiting it altogether might simply help with establishing the new habit.

But replacing it with decaf is also easier to get into.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I had a very similar experience, except it killed my libido Did you, as well as the other people seconding this, have any libido left in the first place? I got on Sertraline because I was depressed, and it actually brought my libido back, by virtue of just bringing me back to a better emotional baseline. All to say, if it had affected my libido, it'd have been a NOOP anyway in my case.

> All to say, if it had affected my libido, it'd have been a NOOP anyway in my case. Wouldn't a "NOOP" be the opposite of a "Nope"? Sorry for the pedantry, but this forum seems an appropriate place for this.

That's the point, killing an inexistent libido is a no-op

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone that falls on the side of “depression is real and antidepressants can help” it is very clear that there are people in this thread that need to hold their tongues because they know not of what they speak. (Not you OP) There are some forms of depression that you cannot think or act your way out of. If you haven’t experienced that, I promise that you do not understand what it is like. You cannot really unders…

As a counterpoint, I experienced such severe negative symptoms after taking SSRIs that I had to be hospitalized for months. Medical treatment is not without its risks. I would always advise trying NPIs before drugs.

If only I knew what an NPI was.
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