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Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

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Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#511

Post by dredmorbius »

costcopizza wrote: post #463
melenaboija wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then I think you see an early indication not just of electric car dominance, but of the (very potential) rise of China as the premier automotive super power. It’s done man. Americans are stuck in ICE engines because they’ve been told they’re “car enthusiasts” while the Chinese have been developing EV technology for years. Meanwhile, European makers are stuck not knowing what to do, make Americans happy or compete w…

I can 100% confidently say the average US buyer is not an auto enthusiast. Cars are appliances to the vast majority of people here. There are multiple other factors for the relatively low adoption of EVs compared to China.

Automobile buyers who buy American or European cars are more likely to be auto enthusiasts.

Then there's the utility / practical / recreational crowd who goes for SUVs and pickup trucks.

Those whose primary aim is utility are already in (non-EU) foreign markets or used. Those are invisible to new-car US/EU sales.

It's a classic Innovators Dilemma dynamic (Clayton Christensen), where chasing higher-end market niches torpedoes development of disruptive tech within the same firm.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Innovator%27s_Dilemma>

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#512

Post by jeromegv »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #480
jansper39 wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern cars are far more reliable than old 'analogue' cars - primarily because of the integrated electronics. ECUs can detect when engines are running rich or lean, knocking or 100 other edge cases and adjust accordingly. Switch to an EV and it's even simpler, you can get away with a motor, battery, BMS and inverter and you can get just about any soapbox to move.

> Modern cars are far more reliable than old 'analogue' cars ... Define "modern". My 1988 Porsche 911 Carrera is now 38 years old (and I own it since 1999, it used to be my daily back in the day). It's considered one of the most reliable car ever built . Mine is sure still running strong and, well, we have to wait until year 2064 (I'll be long gone I guess) to see if any modern car proves as reliable. Also: there are…

Regardless of who's right, you are aware that this is anecdata and survival biais right? Your experience with 2 single cars is not representative of how many years cars survive in average.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#513

Post by bluGill »

bluedino wrote: post #498
bluGill wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The next democrat still has ford and gm - with a lot of union labor - to worry about.

More people work for Target than the UAW

UAW pays better and is politically more powerful. They care more about UAW than Target employees

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#514

Post by anentropic »

embedding-shape wrote: post #395
prmoustache wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, driving on the road is not supposed to be fun. One should go to a racetrack (or simulator) to have fun. Unless you live in a really remote and desertic place, there are just too much people on the road nowadays.

> driving on the road is not supposed to be fun. Who says it's supposed to boring? It's supposed to be safe and you're supposed to drive with the consideration of others, but I don't think it's supposed to be either fun or boring, that's up to you. I'm having a blast rolling down the highway in the middle of the night blasting music and singing, am I not allowed to do this because driving is supposed to not be fun?

If the process of driving itself is fun for you then great - have fun!

But what people usually mean by 'fun' driving is mostly just antisocial behaviour - too fast, loud brrm-brrm noises etc

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#515

Post by jeromegv »

brightball wrote: post #455
nielsbot wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting that Canada agreed to break with the US on EV tariffs. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46648778 It's limited but I feel like Canada aligning themselves at all with China over the US is an interesting development.

Wasn’t there a report in the last 10 years about China accounting for a huge portion of property sales in Canada? I thought I remembered seeing it was as high as 30% in some areas.

30% of house sales in Canada are not purchased in China, no.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#516

Post by screye »

bnchrch wrote: post #2

While the headline is interesting. I think the table at the end of the article is more so. - Worldwide sales -10% YoY - China sales -26% YoY And when you cross compare Porsche saying they sold more EV powertrains than their gas equivalents against China's new found foothold as the market leader in consumer electric cars (BYD, NIO, Xiaomi, etc...) Then I think you see an early indication not just of electric car domin…

It's been a bizarre watch. The automotive industry (and nations that rely on it) has sabotaged itself for a good decade. Unsurprisingly, China has caught up. Classic case of 'we've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas'.

Unions sabotaged automation efforts and limited hours worked. Quarterly financial pressures kept research investments to a minimum. Nations refused to scale up nuclear, and cost of electricity kept rising. The one well-run EV company (Tesla) decided to destroy its brand value overnight. Toyota went on a pig-headed hydrogen tangent and Honda still hasn't tried to make an EV. Korea has done surprisingly well. But, they're the exception that proves the rule.

China's rise as a manufacturing superpower was inevitable. But its rise as an automotive superpower involved major capitulation by the primary competition.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#517

Post by malfist »

screye wrote: post #516
bnchrch wrote: post #2

While the headline is interesting. I think the table at the end of the article is more so. - Worldwide sales -10% YoY - China sales -26% YoY And when you cross compare Porsche saying they sold more EV powertrains than their gas equivalents against China's new found foothold as the market leader in consumer electric cars (BYD, NIO, Xiaomi, etc...) Then I think you see an early indication not just of electric car domin…

It's been a bizarre watch. The automotive industry (and nations that rely on it) has sabotaged itself for a good decade. Unsurprisingly, China has caught up. Classic case of 'we've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas'. Unions sabotaged automation efforts and limited hours worked. Quarterly financial pressures kept research investments to a minimum. Nations refused to scale up nuclear, and cost of electricity kep…

Please share how unions sabotaged automation efforts. As far as I can tell, unions are losing every fight these days.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#518

Post by mlinhares »

bruce511 wrote: post #225
mlinhares wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People can't possibly be driving 200 miles a day, that can't be real.

Sure it can :). Probably not 7 days a week, but a couple days a week, sure. And of course not everyone . Maybe 10%? Not that it matters. What do I care about the needs of some Texans? (I mean that non perjorativly). I mean just because ranchers still need horses doesn't mean the rest of us have to use them. The world will go EV, even much of the US will go EV, regardless of what some folks need.

If you have to drive 200 miles a day to go to/come back from work its a policy failure and we should care about it.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#519

Post by bluedino »

projektfu wrote: post #504
bluedino wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can 100% confidently say the average US buyer is not an auto enthusiast. Cars are appliances to the vast majority of people here. Only like 1-2% of new cars are manual transmission here. A lot of the enthusiast market complains that everything is an automatic these days, even high end sports cars.

I like manual transmissions but I think DCTs are an improvement for the average car. They seem to have a lot less "hunting" than the typical torque-converter automatic and good precision for the driving conditions. It is easy to put them into a manual-select mode. And, of course, they don't seem to stall.

The manual transmission crowd cannot be convinced. Even when you show them the performance advantages etc. They just want 'fun' and 'engaging', however they define that.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#520

Post by jonkoops »

malfist wrote: post #517
screye wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's been a bizarre watch. The automotive industry (and nations that rely on it) has sabotaged itself for a good decade. Unsurprisingly, China has caught up. Classic case of 'we've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas'. Unions sabotaged automation efforts and limited hours worked. Quarterly financial pressures kept research investments to a minimum. Nations refused to scale up nuclear, and cost of electricity kep…

Please share how unions sabotaged automation efforts. As far as I can tell, unions are losing every fight these days.

Unions in countries like Germany and France are much more powerful. Especially VW is extremely unionized, half of the seats on the Supervisory Board are allocated to worker representatives. These employee representatives are elected or selected by the workers (usually via union and works council processes), so VW employees indirectly influence board decisions through these seats.
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