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The Junior Hiring Crisis

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Re: The Junior Hiring Crisis

#511

Post by spjt »

lezojeda wrote: post #125
strickjb9 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adding to this: it's not just that the apprenticeship ladder is gone—it's that nobody wants to deal with juniors who spit out AI code they don't really understand. In the past, a junior would write bad code and you'd work with them to make it better. Now I just assume they're taking my feedback and feeding it right back to the LLM. Ends up taking more of my time than if I'd done it myself. The whole mentorship thing…

Some juniors are even using AI for communication in Slack channels or even DMs. It's so uncanny.

I'm staff and that is probably the main thing I use AI for. It's maybe a bit ironic that AI is a lot better at sounding like an empathetic human being than I am, but I'm still better at writing code.

Re: The Junior Hiring Crisis

#512

Post by spjt »

QuercusMax wrote: post #104
zcw100 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what world you're living in but software development has always been a cut throat business. I've never seen true mentoring. Maybe a code review where some a-hole of a "senior" developer would come in having just read "clean code" and use some stupid stylistic preferences as a cudgel and go to town on the juniors. I'm cynical enough to believe that this, "AI is going to take your programming job!" is just…

Wow, you must have worked in some REALLY toxic places. I had one toxic senior teammate when I first started out - he mocked me when I was having trouble with some of the dev environment he had created - but he got fired shortly thereafter for being bad at his job. Everybody else through my 21-year career has almost universally either been helpful or neutral (mostly just busy). If you think code reviews are just for b…

In my experience the style bikeshedding comes about when PRs are not properly scoped. At least I have learned to just say TLDR.

Re: The Junior Hiring Crisis

#513

Post by spjt »

It sucks if you're looking for entry level work, of course. However, I'm a TL/manager with mostly entry-level reports and I have told them for a while the other side of this mentioned here - by the time they get to senior level they are going to be able to name their price in the shortage.

Re: The Junior Hiring Crisis

#514

Post by johnnyanmac »

Jensson wrote: post #508
johnnyanmac wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Changing hiring practices does not mean they are improve. No, but I'd like to at least see conversation on how to improve the process. We aren't even at that point. We're just barely past acknowledging that it's even an issue. >but if you change processes them now you don't have baselines and past experiences to guide you. I argue we're already at this point. The reason we got past the above point of "acknowledging…

> No, but I'd like to at least see conversation on how to improve the process. We aren't even at that point. We're just barely past acknowledging that it's even an issue. The current hiring practices are a result of acknowledging what they did before didn't work. The current ones work well enough that people don't wanna change it, the only ones who wanna change it are engineers not the companies.

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Re: The Junior Hiring Crisis

#516

Post by _carbyau_ »

dcchambers wrote: post #399
_carbyau_ wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From an individual senior exec point of view - all staff are replaceable. You just hire from outside the company. People don't think in terms of shared commons and that if all companies are doing the same thing then there won't be much of a "senior" market left to hire.

When companies stop hiring juniors it completely kills the employee leveling process. It all but stops the creation of skilled senior employees. You say you can just hire from outside the company - but what do you do when there is no one left to hire because the talent pool is completely drained? Abandoning the junior employee will slowly drain that talent pool until there are no seniors available to hire, the "just…

I feel as though you reiterated my point. But maybe I'm missing something.

Re: The Junior Hiring Crisis

#517

Post by alvah »

Herring wrote: post #484
alvah wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Inequality has been going up in the US for a very long time, which means a lot of people are not being rewarded as much as they should." The second part of your sentence is not necessarily true. It might be true in some or even many cases, but it's certainly not something you can just assert & move on, as if it's a physical law.

I'm just tired of re-litigating this issue. Discuss with your favorite frontier model. Roughly, productivity has been outpacing pay since the mid 1970s, and I wrote about this in another comment here. There's just so much confusion here. Some people like you don't get why a world where a handful of billionaires own everything is a bad idea. Madness. I think nothing less than another depression will get through to mos…

I don't care if you are tired or not, it's not something you can just assert and move on.

Also, you know nothing at all of my opinion on whether "a handful of billionaires own everything" is a bad idea or not. All you know about me is I don't agree with you that rising inequality AUTOMATICALLY means some people haven't been rewarded as much as they "should", whatever that means. Reading comprehension, combined with not assuming others' POV, for the win.

Re: The Junior Hiring Crisis

#518

Post by locknitpicker »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #514
Jensson wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, but I'd like to at least see conversation on how to improve the process. We aren't even at that point. We're just barely past acknowledging that it's even an issue. The current hiring practices are a result of acknowledging what they did before didn't work. The current ones work well enough that people don't wanna change it, the only ones who wanna change it are engineers not the companies.

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[flagged]

Re: The Junior Hiring Crisis

#519

Post by koakuma-chan »

ch4s3 wrote: post #486
koakuma-chan wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chances are he smokes or gets drunk or beats his wife or any combination thereof, or other similar activities. This can be said about any person who works as a plumber, construction worker, or similar, their whole life. And I am not blaming them, this appears to be the sad reality and the nature of our society.

> Chances are he smokes or gets drunk or beats his wife or any combination thereof He is literally the nicest man I know, and smiles ear to ear when he talks about his kids. This says a lot more about you than my pipes guy.

That's great. The point is that you shouldn't disregard the probability of someone seeming "nice" while having issues in private. I don't think that is uncommon.

Also, I don't like how everybody assumes that being "nice" is a good thing. I prefer reasonable and logical people, because when talking to them, I can see that they understand what I am saying, whereas when talking to "nice" people, they have that dreamy aura about them, all nods and smiles, but no signs of comprehension. Like ChatGPT.

Re: The Junior Hiring Crisis

#520

Post by koakuma-chan »

ch4s3 wrote: post #487
koakuma-chan wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, stereotyping. And? I said "chances are." What led me to that statement is my personal experience. Every time I go outside, I can smell somebody smoking weed on their porch. And it's not like it's the same person or the same porch. I can travel multiple kilometers and encounter multiple people doing that. So much for trying to get fresh air. Even without looking at any statistics, I am convinced that a very high…

Maybe you're just judgemental, and should take an inventory of your self. Frankly you seem like a miserable person.

Yes, I am judgemental. Is that bad?
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