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End of Japanese community

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Re: End of Japanese community

#511

Post by hitarpetar »

ants_everywhere wrote: post #64
kaveh_h wrote: post #17

Some people do these type of contribution or charity work not just to do some good but also to feel some autonomy and mastery in a world were much of the regular top down driven drudgery work does not provide much of that feeling. These people are canaries in the coal mine. I expect more people feel a loss of purpose and rise of anxiety and depression in the world.

Conversely, it's a bit strange for a for-profit company like Mozilla Corporation to rely on volunteer labor through its non-profit parent Mozilla Foundation to perform customer support. There was a period where every company was trying to "crowd source" free labor. It died off because people didn't like working for corporations for free. I can see why they have it under Mozilla.org. And lots of companies have communi…

not converse, orthogonal

Re: End of Japanese community

#512

Post by cut3 »

ares623 wrote: post #3

This is rich > We want to make sure we trully understand what you're struggling with. The post literally starts with a list of grievances. Maybe ask the AI for an executive summary and the key points.

Its obvious mozilla doesnt care and wont listen or change by that single, stupid comment. AI response or an idiot human, either way what an insult of a comment. Everything was clearly listed out! Just read what was written! Reach out privatley!

Mozilla turned on shitty AI no one wants without talking to anyone and now wont stop it when its breaking everything and instead just publicly placate.

Not even an apology but a fucking insult!!!

"sorry for your feelings" They can feel however they want you fuckup how about you say sorry for fucking up all the hard work with your shitty product pushes no one wants

Re: End of Japanese community

#513

Post by ekianjo »

krick wrote: post #72
ekianjo wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> nemawashi Long time in Japan too, I would not consider newamashi as being Japan's strengths.

I can imagine what you mean, but since I am not in Japan, it would be interesting why you feel that way.

would take a long time to expand on this in sufficient details, because it's hard to understand unless you live it and see it. People very rarely speak up in meetings (silence is the norm, just like they were taught in school), and therefore you never get to see exactly what people feel or think about what you are planning to do. So the norm is that most people talk and exchange in other venues (usually in your back, in smaller groups - I don't mean this in a negative way, it's just what they are used to do). So when you are set to achieve something, it's a long road of 1:1s, drinks or informal meetings to get to know what they think, what they want, and how they can help you to get there. Multiply this by the number of stakeholders involved, and the politics at play between all of them, and you end up with a very slow and inefficient model to drive decisions and buy-in.

Re: End of Japanese community

#514

Post by Hnrobert42 »

ares623 wrote: post #3

This is rich > We want to make sure we trully understand what you're struggling with. The post literally starts with a list of grievances. Maybe ask the AI for an executive summary and the key points.

Yes, and the poster wants to understand them.

How would you have responded?

Re: End of Japanese community

#515

Post by sirwhinesalot »

I'm not sure why I clicked on this beyond just knowing it was going to be another Mozilla trainwreck and not being able to look away. But what was truly stunning to me was this comment thread. There are people here actually defending the following response:

> I'm sorry for how you and the Japanese community feel about the MT workflow that we just recently introduced. Would you be interested to hop on a call with us to talk about this further?

This is horrifically patronizing after someone's volunteer work was effectively destroyed (as laid out in the list of grievances), but there are people here asking "how is it patronizing? seems perfectly reasonable to me".

It's one of those "they live among us" moments, where you realize that you're surrounded by psychopaths. It's not even malice, they're not intentionally being assholes, they just have no empathy.

Re: End of Japanese community

#516

Post by hitarpetar »

cubefox wrote: post #313
nozilla wrote: post #252

> Hi Marsf, > I'm sorry for how you and the Japanese community feel about the MT workflow that we just recently introduced. Would you be interested to hop on a call with us to talk about this further? We want to make sure we trully understand what you're struggling with. > My timezone is UTC+7, so it should be easier for us to set up time. Let me know how that sound! What a horribly condescending and patronising resp…

I don't get it. It's not the best possible phrasing, but people who find this sounds "horribly condescending" are excessively sensitive in my opinion. Like a grown man complaining about being "horribly hurt" when a careless passer-by bumped into him.

sorry you're struggling with the way the community responded

Re: End of Japanese community

#517

Post by hitarpetar »

braiamp wrote: post #486
Ekaros wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wasn't there already a perfectly fine and seemingly fully functional communication channel in place? The one they answered in. I see absolutely zero reason not communicate in it. On other hand, it seems that early reply had zero effort or attempt to communicate. That is to identify what had happened and gather information and example themselves. But the absolute tiniest bit of effort in I would expect.

Dude, if someone is saying "hey we will pack up, we have nothing to do here" out of the blue, I would like a more nuanced conversation that written text could not hope to convey. We are humans and while reading is perfectly capable of relying information, it's unable to rely intention accurately. There's ton of information that is conveyed by the inflection of voice, demeanor, body language, etc.

> There's ton of information that is conveyed by the inflection of voice, demeanor, body language, etc.

information which mostly gets scrambled by a phone or video call

Re: End of Japanese community

#518

Post by [deleted] »

Hnrobert42 wrote: post #514
ares623 wrote: post #3

This is rich > We want to make sure we trully understand what you're struggling with. The post literally starts with a list of grievances. Maybe ask the AI for an executive summary and the key points.

Yes, and the poster wants to understand them. How would you have responded?

[deleted]

Re: End of Japanese community

#520

Post by crazygringo »

kuschku wrote: post #316
ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* * *

Tools should work for their users. In this case, the bot should work (and be controlled by) the localization teams for each language. If the bot has the power to overrule the volunteer translation teams, the entire power structure is wrong from the get go.

Or maybe it was just a poorly thought out piece of software that will get rolled back?

Saying "the entire power structure is wrong from the get go" is a huge conclusion to draw here. People write internal tools and make mistakes. Mistakes can be fixed.

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