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Free software scares normal people

danieldelaney.net

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Re: Free software scares normal people

#511

Post by patrakov »

squeedles wrote: post #10

Good article, but the reasoning is wrong. It isn't easy to make a simple interface in the same way that Pascal apologized for writing a long letter because he didn't have time to write a shorter one. Implementing the UI for one exact use case is not much trouble, but figuring out what that use case is difficult. And defending that use case from the line of people who want "that + this little extra thing", or the "I j…

While working for one of the previous companies, I hit a regrettable counterexample for the point in the article.

Developers built a web UI for creating containers for the labs, taking the advice from this (then future) article too literally. Their app could only build containers, in the approved way. Yet, not all labs were possible to run in containers, and the app did not account for that (it was a TODO). Worse, people responsible for organizing the labs did not know that not all labs are compatible with containers.

Lab coordinators thus continued to create containers even in cases where it didn't make sense, despite the explicit warning "in cases X, Y, Z, do not proceed, call Alexander instead".

So if you make one button you better make that it is always the right button. People follow the happy-but-wrong path way too easily if there is no other obvious one.

Re: Free software scares normal people

#512

Post by nemomarx »

patrakov wrote: post #511
squeedles wrote: post #10

Good article, but the reasoning is wrong. It isn't easy to make a simple interface in the same way that Pascal apologized for writing a long letter because he didn't have time to write a shorter one. Implementing the UI for one exact use case is not much trouble, but figuring out what that use case is difficult. And defending that use case from the line of people who want "that + this little extra thing", or the "I j…

While working for one of the previous companies, I hit a regrettable counterexample for the point in the article. Developers built a web UI for creating containers for the labs, taking the advice from this (then future) article too literally. Their app could only build containers, in the approved way. Yet, not all labs were possible to run in containers, and the app did not account for that (it was a TODO). Worse, pe…

Having to read a label and go out of the tool to do something else is basically impossible UX, yeah. You'll never get users to do that, and little in line warnings also won't work unless you block the buttons at the same time I think.

In this example I wonder if the tool was too "MVP" and they didn't evaluate what minimum viable would mean for the users?

Re: Free software scares normal people

#513

Post by patrakov »

theandrewbailey wrote: post #308
singhrac wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One summer in middle school our family computer failed. We bought a new motherboard from Microcenter but it didn’t come with a Windows license, so I proposed we just try Ubuntu for a while. My mom had no trouble adjusting to it. It was all just computer to her in some ways.

Sometime around 2012, Windows XP started having issues on my parent's PC, so I installed Xubuntu on it (my preferred distro at the time). I told them that "it works like Windows", showed them how to check email, browse the web, play solitare, and shut down. Even the random HP printer + scanner they had worked great! I went back home 2 states away, and expected a call from them to "put it back to what it was", but it…

For one of my relatives, it also never happened. I installed Linux on their laptop that was having issues and explained how to browse the web and use some apps.

They always answered me "it works well".

But what I found during my next visit is a paper with a telephone number of computer helpers, and the laptop was running a fresh copy of Windows, presumably installed by these helpers.

Re: Free software scares normal people

#515

Post by patrakov »

nemomarx wrote: post #512
patrakov wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While working for one of the previous companies, I hit a regrettable counterexample for the point in the article. Developers built a web UI for creating containers for the labs, taking the advice from this (then future) article too literally. Their app could only build containers, in the approved way. Yet, not all labs were possible to run in containers, and the app did not account for that (it was a TODO). Worse, pe…

Having to read a label and go out of the tool to do something else is basically impossible UX, yeah. You'll never get users to do that, and little in line warnings also won't work unless you block the buttons at the same time I think. In this example I wonder if the tool was too "MVP" and they didn't evaluate what minimum viable would mean for the users?

In this case, the product owner had a wrong idea of what's minimum viable, and his idea was faithfully implemented, plus a warning in the app to call me in specific incompatible cases.

Later the missing pieces were added, we had "two buttons" and the resulting user confusion because they did not know and could not be taught whether a container makes sense for a particular lab.

Re: Free software scares normal people

#516

Post by littlecosmic »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #413
thyristan wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They should focus on streamlining actual workflow of actual people. If you streamline a shitty process, you will have diarrhea... Unfortunately, most processes suck and need improvement. It isn't actually IT's job to improve processes. But almost always, IT is the only department that is able to change those processes nowadays since they are usually tied to some combination of lore, traditions, spreadsheets and mis…

That's precisely the mistake I'm talking about. You think you're smarter than people on the ground, and know better how they should do their job. It's because of that condescending, know-it-all attitude that people actively avoid getting IT involved in anything, and prefer half-assed Excel hacks. And they're absolutely right. Work with them and not over them, and you may get an opportunity to improve the process in w…

In my experience, it’s often the business side - rather than IT - that tries to use a technical change to force change to the business process that they have failed to change politically… and it usually turns out that a technical change isn’t enough either.

Re: Free software scares normal people

#518

Post by skydhash »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #456
skydhash wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be nice if the computers could be that nice to work. It’s a completely dumb machine that needs everything spelled out. Humans are very flexible. To get flexibility out of a computer require great effort. The main reason you want a computer is cheap emulation (cad, daw,…) or fast (and reliable) automation. Both requires great deal of specifications to get right.

That's not what most people use computers for at work. And it's not what magic Excel sheets and Access forms are made for.

Are you sure? Almost all excel sheets are emulations of some process. They’re not great at it, but they work better than the alternatives. But organizations need automation more than emulation, i.e. they want to improve their process, not merely replacing them.

Re: Free software scares normal people

#519

Post by LtWorf »

micromacrofoot wrote: post #137
snovymgodym wrote: post #15

The problem is that everyone wants a different 20% of the functionality. Actual good UI/UX design isn't trivial and it tends to require a tight feedback loop between testers, designers, implementers, and users. A lot of FOSS simply doesn't have the resources to do that.

FOSS is ~99% developers, ask anyone in UI/UX to contribute to free projects and they'll look at you like you have two heads.

Or they will accept and now your software with a lot of features is a full screen app, completely gray, with a single button in the middle.
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