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Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

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Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#511

Post by biql »

cameronh90 wrote: post #445
codegeek wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is how the cloud companies keep you hooked on. I am not against them of course but the notion that no one can self host in production because "it is too complex" is something that we have been fed over the last 10-15 years. Deploying a production db on a dedicated server is not that hard. It is about the fact that people now think that unless they do cloud, they are amateurs. It is sad.

Doing stuff on-prem or in a data centre _is_ hard though. It's easy to look at a one-off deployment of a single server and remark on how much cheaper it is than RDS, and that's fine if that's all you need. But it completely skips past the reality of a real life resilient database server deployment: handling upgrades, disk failures, backups, hot standbys, encryption key management, keeping deployment scripts up to dat…

Database is one of those places where it's justified, I think. Application containers do not need the same level of care hence are easy to run yourself.

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#512

Post by pqdbr »

js4ever wrote: post #343

We've helped quite a few teams move from AWS to Hetzner (and Netcup) lately, and I think the biggest surprise for people isn't the cost or the raw performance, it’s how simple things become when you remove 15 layers of managed abstractions. You stop worrying about S3 vs EFS vs FSx, or Lambda cold starts, or EBS burst credits. You just deploy a Docker stacks on a fast NVMe box and it flies. The trade-off is you need a…

Would like to know more about your postgres offering: does it offer streaming replicas and streaming backup? Or just dump stored to s3?

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#513

Post by theturtlemoves »

Estimating the cost and performance up front is impossible unless you've deployed something similar before. I'm probably wrong but it seems to me like AWS (Azure / Google Cloud) is a good enough place to start, get a feel for what you need and then move on to bare metal only if needed.

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#514

Post by prmoustache »

odie5533 wrote: post #266
radu_floricica wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What is old is new again. Over the years I tried occasionally to look into cloud, but it never made sense. A lot of complexity and significantly higher cost, for very low performance and a promise of "scalability". You virtually never need scalability so fast that you don't have time to add another server - and at baremetal costs, you're usually about a year ahead of the curve anyways.

Complexity? I've never set up a highly available Postgres and Redis cluster on dedicated hardware, but I can not imagine it's easier than doing it in AWS which is only a few clicks and I don't have to worry about OS upgrades and patches. Or a highly available load balancer with infinite scale.

Well you can have managed resources on premises.

It costs people and automation.

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#516

Post by fsckboy »

dematz wrote: post #508
torginus wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, I hope to god we are moving past the age of 'everything's fast if you have enough machines' and 'money is not real' era of software development. I remember the point in my career when I moved from a cranky old .NET company, where we handled millions of users from a single cabinent's worth of beefy servers, to a cloud based shop where we used every cloud buzzword tech under the sun (but mainly everything was cont…

Tangential point but why is it that so often these leaving the cloud posts use the word "beefy" to describe the servers? It's always you don't need cloud because beefy servers handle pretty much any bla bla bla https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... If anyone from oxide computer or similar is reading, maybe you should rebrand to BEEFY server inc...

>Tangential point... rebrand to BEEFY server

idea for an ad campaign:

"mmm, beefy!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6ImwKMRq98&t=21s

i don't know how "worldwide" is the distribution of Chef "Boyardee" canned spaghetti (which today is not too good), but the founder's story is fairly interesting. He was a real Italian immigrant chef named Ettore Boiardi and he gets a lot of credit for originally evangelizing and popularizing "spaghetti" and "spaghetti sauce" in America when most people had never tried it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ettore_Boiardi

you know, "spaghetti code..."?

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#517

Post by bombcar »

colechristensen wrote: post #458
bombcar wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My conspiracy theory is that "cloud scaling" was entirely driven by people who grew up watching sites get slash dotted and thought it was the absolute most important thing in the world that you can quickly scale up to infinity billion requests/second.

No, cloud adoption was driven by teams having to wait 2 years for capex for their hardware purchase and then getting a quarter of what they asked for. You couldn't get things, people hoarded servers they pretended to be using because when they did need something they couldn't get it. Management just wouldn't approve budgets so you were stuck using too little hardware. On the cloud it takes five seconds to get a new m…

There's "cloud" as "server in the cloud I can use" which is what the majority of smaller players are using - it's just someone else's server.

There's also "cloud" as the API-driven world of managed services that drain your wallet faster than you can blink.

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#519

Post by gwking »

dematz wrote: post #508
torginus wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, I hope to god we are moving past the age of 'everything's fast if you have enough machines' and 'money is not real' era of software development. I remember the point in my career when I moved from a cranky old .NET company, where we handled millions of users from a single cabinent's worth of beefy servers, to a cloud based shop where we used every cloud buzzword tech under the sun (but mainly everything was cont…

Tangential point but why is it that so often these leaving the cloud posts use the word "beefy" to describe the servers? It's always you don't need cloud because beefy servers handle pretty much any bla bla bla https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... If anyone from oxide computer or similar is reading, maybe you should rebrand to BEEFY server inc...

The servers are always beefy and the software is always blazingly fast. Blazingly beefy is my new joke trademark.

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#520

Post by icedchai »

AznHisoka wrote: post #336
odie5533 wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Complexity? I've never set up a highly available Postgres and Redis cluster on dedicated hardware, but I can not imagine it's easier than doing it in AWS which is only a few clicks and I don't have to worry about OS upgrades and patches. Or a highly available load balancer with infinite scale.

As a self hosting fan, i cant even fathom how hard it would be to even get started running a Postgres or redis cluster on AWS. Like, where do I go? Do i search for Postgres? If so where? Does the IP of my cluster change? If so how to make it static? Also can non-aws servers connect to it? No? Then how to open up the firewall and allow it? And what happens if it uses too much resources? Does it shutdown by itself? Wha…

If you can self host postgres, you'll find "managing" RDS to be a walk in the park.
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