Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland • Hacker News Board

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#511

Post by Noaidi » Sun, Oct 12, 2025, 1:41 AM UTC

skibbityboop wrote: post #488

Noaidi wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both the Buddha andJesus were real people. I wasn’t bringing up God as I don’t believe in a Christian God, and Buddhists don’t believe in God at all. But those two characters taught us a lot about suffering. Where it comes from and how to face suffering with courage and not just throw your morals out the window once you have the glimpse of even future suffering. Maybe it’s just me, but I see every moment as the best…

Yes, when dementia has you terrified of, or raging at, your closest loved ones (who you don't remember at all so you think they're demons or strangers) all day every day to the point where they all can't stand you and feel terrible for wishing death would come to end your massive suffering. Beautiful moments, just beautiful. Hanging in there with cancer? Sure, fight it and deal with the pain. Dementia? No, please end…

It’s interesting to read here how many people believe their thoughts are themselves. They are more worried about losing their minds than losing their limbs. Your thoughts and memories are as much you as your hand or your foot. As a society, I think we’ve become so attached to our “self“ that we think is “me“. These people who lose their minds, do they have a sense of self? And if they have a sense of self, do they suffer? Cause you really can’t suffer if you have no sense of self. It may look like you’re suffering from the outside, but it’s hard to say with someone deep in dementia or Alzheimer’s if they’re suffering. I don’t know if it’s something that ever can be known or if it’s ever been asked. I know I have a friend‘s mother right now pretty deep into dementia and she seems OK with everything.

But this is what happened with the man in the original article. He had a sense of himself that he wanted preserve. And that to me as a sickness, a spiritual sickness, greediness almost.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#512

Post by kcexn » Sun, Oct 12, 2025, 1:43 AM UTC

lordnacho wrote: post #3

I had an old teacher who died almost a year ago. Great guy, very sociable, knew everyone in the little town he lived in. Kept in touch with a lot of students. Good neighbour, friendly guy who'd talk to everyone. He got Alzheimers. He started forgetting stuff, and it frustrated him. He got caught driving dangerously, and cursed the doctor who took away his license. He argued with me about the state of some chicken he…

I think the takeaway should be you really don't want Alzheimer's regardless of what people think of you.

Think about what is happening from his point of view. The condition has fundamentally changed his perception of reality. You are trying to tell him that this perfectly cooked chicken is pink all-over when it clearly isn't. Everyone else has gone mad and he doesn't know why.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#513

Post by Noaidi » Sun, Oct 12, 2025, 1:50 AM UTC

leakycap wrote: post #509

Noaidi wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am saying it’s relevant because suffering is suffering. It has the same source so it does not matter if it’s a big suffering or a little suffering. Understanding suffering does not need a degree of suffering. It just needs suffering. The man in the original article was not suffering at all yet he killed himself. What kind of suffering was that? It’s not that he was suffering. He didn’t wanna suffer at all. He didn’…

> It has the same source so it does not matter if it’s a big suffering or a little suffering. What religious belief are you trying to explain here?

I’m sorry, I’m not one of those people. I don’t have “religious beliefs“. There are things I’ve learned in my rather long life and through my suffering and happiness and reading a lot of different spiritual books as well as a lot of materialist books. (my current fascination is the possibility of tubules being the source of a quantum consciousness.)

All I wrote was a remark about how suffering has the same source. Why do we suffer? Isn’t that an interesting question? Do we need to suffer? Can we have pain without suffering? These are not answers I can tell you. These things people have to understand by experience and observation.

I want saw a Whitetail deer with a compound fracture to its rear leg. The bone was sticking straight out. Probably hit by a car. But there it was walking with its herd, calmly eating grass with the rest of them.

So that’s what I do, I look at my life outside of me and I look at the life inside of me.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#514

Post by anigbrowl » Sun, Oct 12, 2025, 1:55 AM UTC

firesteelrain wrote: post #479

anigbrowl wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but it's obvious that many don't agree with your views.

I am not sure the point of your comment. Do you have anything to add to the discussion? My parent comment has driven alot of valuable discussion (other than your comment)

Perhaps you find the replies to bait 'valuable.'

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#515

Post by raw_anon_1111 » Sun, Oct 12, 2025, 1:56 AM UTC

Noaidi wrote: post #511

skibbityboop wrote: post #488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, when dementia has you terrified of, or raging at, your closest loved ones (who you don't remember at all so you think they're demons or strangers) all day every day to the point where they all can't stand you and feel terrible for wishing death would come to end your massive suffering. Beautiful moments, just beautiful. Hanging in there with cancer? Sure, fight it and deal with the pain. Dementia? No, please end…

It’s interesting to read here how many people believe their thoughts are themselves. They are more worried about losing their minds than losing their limbs. Your thoughts and memories are as much you as your hand or your foot. As a society, I think we’ve become so attached to our “self“ that we think is “me“. These people who lose their minds, do they have a sense of self? And if they have a sense of self, do they su…

How is it “greedy”? I consider greediness as hoarding resources more than you need thst could help someone else. You are not being greedy for refusing to suffer especially when you don’t have any dependents.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#516

Post by raw_anon_1111 » Sun, Oct 12, 2025, 1:58 AM UTC

Noaidi wrote: post #503

raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My only definition of “morality” is are you doing something that affects other people. If you aren’t doing anything to hurt other people, I consider that “morally neutral”. If you aren’t doing anything to help other people, that’s “morally good”. How is my hypothetically deciding to end my own suffering “morally bad”? I don’t owe suffering from a terminal illness to anyone. Your calculation for what you will suffer t…

> How is my hypothetically deciding to end my own suffering “morally bad”? Because you’re saying that life is not worth living at some point. But that’s just my level of morality. I think life is so rare and precious that I do not even want to miss the suffering that’s given to me.

And that’s your personal choice. No one is advocating killing people who don’t have the mental capacity to decide.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#517

Post by singleshot_ » Sun, Oct 12, 2025, 2:10 AM UTC

lordnacho wrote: post #3

I had an old teacher who died almost a year ago. Great guy, very sociable, knew everyone in the little town he lived in. Kept in touch with a lot of students. Good neighbour, friendly guy who'd talk to everyone. He got Alzheimers. He started forgetting stuff, and it frustrated him. He got caught driving dangerously, and cursed the doctor who took away his license. He argued with me about the state of some chicken he…

> You really don't want to end up with dementia and related illnesses, it totally sours everyone's view of you.

Yes, the sixty-fifth worst thing about degenerative brain disease. Good observation.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#518

Post by firesteelrain » Sun, Oct 12, 2025, 2:11 AM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #514

firesteelrain wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure the point of your comment. Do you have anything to add to the discussion? My parent comment has driven alot of valuable discussion (other than your comment)

Perhaps you find the replies to bait 'valuable.'

You literally co-authored a paper on how online communities handle conflict, and yet here you are generating a textbook example for your own citations. At least you’re staying on-brand.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#519

Post by Noaidi » Sun, Oct 12, 2025, 2:25 AM UTC

raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #515

Noaidi wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s interesting to read here how many people believe their thoughts are themselves. They are more worried about losing their minds than losing their limbs. Your thoughts and memories are as much you as your hand or your foot. As a society, I think we’ve become so attached to our “self“ that we think is “me“. These people who lose their minds, do they have a sense of self? And if they have a sense of self, do they su…

How is it “greedy”? I consider greediness as hoarding resources more than you need thst could help someone else. You are not being greedy for refusing to suffer especially when you don’t have any dependents.

Yes, you’re right which is why I said greedy almost. I think there are some aspect of him wanting more than he’s deserved. Like wanting a life that ends perfectly while everyone else’s life has to go on with their suffering. But I think it is just generally selfish what he did.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#520

Post by Noaidi » Sun, Oct 12, 2025, 2:29 AM UTC

raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #516

Noaidi wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How is my hypothetically deciding to end my own suffering “morally bad”? Because you’re saying that life is not worth living at some point. But that’s just my level of morality. I think life is so rare and precious that I do not even want to miss the suffering that’s given to me.

And that’s your personal choice. No one is advocating killing people who don’t have the mental capacity to decide.

The action by the man in the original article is advocating for the killing of oneself. His advice is to avoid suffering it is best to kill yourself. Approving of that message is advocating for death over suffering and that’s just something I disagree with. It is my personal choice, but his personal choice has an impact on society so it’s not really a personal choice. If we find it acceptable for people to kill themselves to avoid suffering or in his case to avoid future suffering than I think this is something that needs to go beyond personal choice.