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Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

reuters.com

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Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#511

Post by freedomben »

logicchains wrote: post #419
a022311 wrote: post #402

The same thing is happening in Greece. The new mandatory digital ID replaces and unifies everything about citizens in one place, "to make it easier for government services to share information between each other". It can indeed be useful, but the privacy implications are enormous. Just imagine that a policeman, employer or anybody else with access to the information linked to the ID can instantly view our medical rec…

>The worst part is that we no longer have any power to do something about it. That's not true. If a large enough mob of citizens went to the capital, burned down the government building and harassed MPs on the street (and followed them to their homes), as recently happened in Nepal and before that in Bangladesh, things would change very quickly.

With no privacy though, how do you even talk about it with enough people to organize?

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#512

Post by dfxm12 »

aftergibson wrote: post #189

A secure, optional digital ID could be useful. But not in today’s UK. Why? Because the state has already shown it can’t be trusted with our data. - Snoopers’ Charter (Investigatory Powers Act 2016): ISPs must keep a year’s worth of records of which websites you visit. More than 40 agencies—from MI5 to the Welsh Ambulance Service—can request it. MI5 has already broken the rules and kept data it shouldn’t have. - Encry…

With all the cameras and phone tracking you've brought up, what does the ID give to the government that they don't already have? I get where you're coming from; I think about this myself. However, I usually come to the conclusion that concern around this is being penny wise but pound foolish, considering both the point you've brought up and also that I have a tracking device in my pocket with me at all times that already keeps track of where I am, what I'm doing and what I'm thinking. I don't really trust Google, Apple, etc. any more than the government. I've also seen governments punish people extrajudicially (or just trump up charges) when they want to, without this.

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#513

Post by lxgr »

array_key_first wrote: post #453
lxgr wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does any of that have to do with an ID card ? Many countries have had ID cards for decades, yet don't have any digital ID system whatsoever.

Nothing but I thought we were talking about digital id.

At least three comment levels up from mine are about ID cards, not digital ID.

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#514

Post by ascorbic »

pjc50 wrote: post #201
celticninja wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you explain what it is you find so distasteful about ID cards? I mean if you have a passport then you already have an 'ID card', but I certainly don't want to take that out with me to prove my age.

It all depends on exactly when they're mandatory and what tracking is associated with them. My own personal thinking has evolved on the subject since I campaigned against ID cards under Blair ("no2id"). It is a question of trust and purpose. Things like the Estonian digital identity scheme do not seem to be bad in practice. The problem comes from identity checkpoints, which serve as an opportunity for inconvenience,…

I've had a very similar journey. I also campaigned against them, rejoiced when the hard drives were shredded after the election. I am now less worried. The devil is in the detail, and the issue last time was in the database rather than the cards. That said, I think since then we have bigger concerns, and if an ID app alleviates some concerns about immigration then I'm fine with it. One big thing that has happened since then is GDS – the various GOV.UK apps tend to be actually good. I recently used the new GOV.UK One Login app to renew my driving licence and it was impressively good.

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#515

Post by hayd »

foldr wrote: post #417
elcritch wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an American it seems to me that the UK government insists on finding a way to upset all sides on any given issue like illegal immigration. If anything it's the singular and unique skill of Whitehall.

Don't be misled by the reaction on HN. The general concept of a national ID card is not unpopular in the UK: https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/support-for-th... IMO this is a gimmick and probably won't have much effect either for good or bad. I would vote against it given the chance. But there aren't that many British people who feel especially strongly about this.

> I would vote against it given the chance.

Unfortunately the British people are rarely given a chance to vote and even more rarely listened to.

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#516

Post by kristianc »

philipallstar wrote: post #505
qazwsxedchac wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ID cards as realized in many other countries are comparatively benign, because they are a physical credential in the possession of the person concerned. The government cannot stop this credential from being used except by physically confiscating it or by waiting (years) for it to expire. Distributed storage in action. The UK's proposal makes the "digital ID" a pointer to an entry in a centralized database. This d…

I'm against the ID, but the more good faith reason for a database entry is it should eliminate fake IDs.

"Just one more bit of regulation will solve the problem" is how Britain became the most centralised country in Western Europe. The sad thing is that the majority of the population still buy it.

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#517

Post by XorNot »

philipallstar wrote: post #505
qazwsxedchac wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ID cards as realized in many other countries are comparatively benign, because they are a physical credential in the possession of the person concerned. The government cannot stop this credential from being used except by physically confiscating it or by waiting (years) for it to expire. Distributed storage in action. The UK's proposal makes the "digital ID" a pointer to an entry in a centralized database. This d…

I'm against the ID, but the more good faith reason for a database entry is it should eliminate fake IDs.

The actual reason is everyone has a phone.

We have this is NSW in Australia: the Services NSW app provides a digital drivers license which is guaranteed to be accepted by authorities as legitimate.

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#518

Post by crazygringo »

qazwsxedchac wrote: post #459
aftergibson wrote: post #189

A secure, optional digital ID could be useful. But not in today’s UK. Why? Because the state has already shown it can’t be trusted with our data. - Snoopers’ Charter (Investigatory Powers Act 2016): ISPs must keep a year’s worth of records of which websites you visit. More than 40 agencies—from MI5 to the Welsh Ambulance Service—can request it. MI5 has already broken the rules and kept data it shouldn’t have. - Encry…

The ID cards as realized in many other countries are comparatively benign, because they are a physical credential in the possession of the person concerned. The government cannot stop this credential from being used except by physically confiscating it or by waiting (years) for it to expire. Distributed storage in action. The UK's proposal makes the "digital ID" a pointer to an entry in a centralized database. This d…

> The government cannot stop this credential from being used except by physically confiscating it or by waiting (years) for it to expire

This is not true. Government agencies generally look up your ID as necessary to check if it's still valid.

Stopped for speeding? The cop is going to look up your driver's license.

Leaving the country? They're running your passport number.

Starting a job? They're checking the status of your SSN.

The physical ID is good enough for low-stakes stuff like renting a car with a driver's license, or proving your age to get into a bar. But it's already not trusted on its own for any of the serious stuff you're talking about, like where you can reside and work.

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#519

Post by paxys »

Nothing is going to change unless you put the entire penalty of illegal employment on the employer. This could mean massive fines, shutting down the business and/or jail time. In the US hundreds of illegal workers are rounded up every day and jailed/deported while their employers get a slap on the wrist, and these employers then just turn around and hire more illegal immigrants. The overall problem goes unsolved.
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