Earlier quoted context omitted.
[flagged]
what exactly do you mean by that
That you should join the war, kill some people, and potentially die yourself. A better question is why is that funny.
Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';
511–520 of 891 posts
Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';
#512Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Representative democracy doesn't mean that every possible policy could be enacted by some realistic configuration of elected representatives, even if any particular policy is supported by a majority of the electorate. that is only true if you flatten your system to two parties.
> that is only true if you flatten your system to two parties. Again with the "you". "We" did not flatten anything into anything; we were born into an unfair and broken system that we have no power to change.
This is also true of Iranians.
People are pointing out the hypocrisy of demonising Iranians for the actions of their government while insisting that Americans are unwilling victims of theirs.
Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';
#513OP, some context from the other side might be helpful. Yes, there are fines for American companies if they do business with Iranians. That's how sanctions work as I'm sure you're aware. But the story doesn't stop there. If an American finds out they are transacting with a sanctioned individual, or citizens of a sanctioned country like Iran or North Korea, the stakes go up: $1M USD fine and up to 20 years in federal p…
> Nobody should be expected to take that risk I've seen this sentiment so many times from westerners. You all say this, and yet at the same time you levy economic sanctions on countries like Iran, Cuba, and North Korea, with the justification that by making their citizens lives horrific, you encourage them to rise against their government. Their authoritarian militaristic government that doesn't care for human rights…
It's like saying "all you" Iranians are choosing to publicly hang political prisoners using (Western) construction equipment.
Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';
#514Earlier quoted context omitted.
A revolution also isn't easy when you know that the revolutions you could have, would be the ones supported by foreign groups that absolutely don't want your country well. USA on no account will tolerate an Iran which is both free and democratic and at all economically developed, because they don't trust a democratic public to support pro-American policies in the middle east - especially related to Israel and oil. Ju…
I would argue that not every society will thrive under a democracy. The people must be somewhat educated, politically savy, considerate, and accommodating. At least this has to be true in the beginning of a democracy where the people are laying the foundations. Now I agree that the policies of the United States may not always be in the interest of the people from that part of the world, but a "mild" dictator like the…
Yeah, I consider that attitude paternalistic authoritarianism, and pretty contemptible. Of the people who "lack the proper virtues" for a democracy, I would rank people like you highest.
Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';
#515Earlier quoted context omitted.
It worked pretty well for most east bloc countries. Granted, they had to wait until the Soviet Union was weak to break away, but couldn't sanctions be one of the tools to get there faster?
Ask Balkans about their 90s. "Worked pretty well", yeah.
I did say "most", and I stand by that. Look at most of Central Europe, the Baltics, Ukraine...
Even the Asian parts of the USSR mostly had peaceful transitions into independence (and often into the hands of new semi-dictators, but that's beside the point).
Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';
#516Earlier quoted context omitted.
Long term foreign relationships cannot be built on top of four year presidential terms. Besides Israel, I'm not sure any country has continuity between recent administrations.
> Long term foreign relationships cannot be built on top of four year presidential terms. Yes indeed, I agree. Although: long term foreign relationships certainly can be un-built on top of four year presidential terms. See: current US president and rest-of-the-world.
Not just un-built, but poisoned for generations.
Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';
#517OP, some context from the other side might be helpful. Yes, there are fines for American companies if they do business with Iranians. That's how sanctions work as I'm sure you're aware. But the story doesn't stop there. If an American finds out they are transacting with a sanctioned individual, or citizens of a sanctioned country like Iran or North Korea, the stakes go up: $1M USD fine and up to 20 years in federal p…
> Nobody should be expected to take that risk I've seen this sentiment so many times from westerners. You all say this, and yet at the same time you levy economic sanctions on countries like Iran, Cuba, and North Korea, with the justification that by making their citizens lives horrific, you encourage them to rise against their government. Their authoritarian militaristic government that doesn't care for human rights…
I just want to add one angle I don't think the other comments covered well - it is obvious that nobody pushing the propaganda angle ("encouraging them to rise up") is serious because the track record is far too clear. I can't think of an instance where sanctions have ever triggered a political change and if they do then it is rarer than a country's elites changing direction due to internal political concerns. Nobody believes sanctions will cause political change in their targets. It is almost unthinkable that they would. What could that even look like? If someone has the power to threaten a country then they don't need to actually levy the sanctions to get compliance. Countries only get sanctioned if the sanctions aren't enough pressure to cause change.
The point of sanctions is to cripple the middle and lower classes, destroying a country's ability to fund a military. That actually makes it less likely for a dictatorship to get overthrown - the middle class is too poor to organise which is desirable from the West's perspective. Dictatorships are really bad at waging war effectively, they struggle to handle the complex logistics and are easier to distract and threaten.
Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';
#518OP, some context from the other side might be helpful. Yes, there are fines for American companies if they do business with Iranians. That's how sanctions work as I'm sure you're aware. But the story doesn't stop there. If an American finds out they are transacting with a sanctioned individual, or citizens of a sanctioned country like Iran or North Korea, the stakes go up: $1M USD fine and up to 20 years in federal p…
It's pretty hilarious how the americans have corporate personhood so businesses can pretend to be people when it suits them, to shield their workers from the law.
But of course this veil can be pierced when it suits the administration, but not when it'd positively benefit the life of american citizens.
Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';
#519Earlier quoted context omitted.
> that is only true if you flatten your system to two parties. Again with the "you". "We" did not flatten anything into anything; we were born into an unfair and broken system that we have no power to change.
blame English language on lack of distinction between plural(referring to 'your society' in this case) and singular you. I don't think that's a hard concept to grasp.
No, this has nothing to do with English grammar. I understand that you are using "you" in the plural, here. What I reject is the premise that "Americans" is an identifiable group that is collectively responsible for any particular thing, extending to people who never supported or voted for that thing.
This is a philosophical disagreement, not an issue of language.
Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';
#520Any business that goes political/activist should be written off by any of their customers - for ever.
Funny because i would write off any company doing business with russia. Every action is “political” because we exist in a context.
That is perfectly fine. You are the customer and you can choose whom you will give your business to. My point is that companies should not be doing it because they instantly cut their potential customer base by half with every single act of activism they do. They should be focusing on business and nothing else. Politics, activism, whatever you want to call it, should be solely in the hands of the individual, not the corporations, whose sole purpose to exist is to do business with every possible customer they can in order to turn a profit.
Additionally, companies might be political in ways I might not care. It might be simply a non-factor when deciding whether I give them business or not. But the sheer fact they are politically active, so to speak, and don' focus solely on providing the best services for the best prices with the highest quality, is the red flag that instantly makes me wary of doing business with them in the first place.