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Trying to teach in the age of the AI homework machine

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Re: Trying to teach in the age of the AI homework machine

#511

Post by ericmcer »

jumploops wrote: post #55

A bit off-topic, but I think AI has the potential to supercharge learning for the students of the future. Similar to Montessori, LLMs can help students who wander off in various directions. I remember often being “stuck” on some concept (usually in biology and chemistry), where the teacher would hand-wave something as truth, this dismissing my request for further depth. Of course, LLMs in the current educational land…

yeah this is a good point, just adjust coursework from multiple choice tests and fill in the blank homework to larger scale projects.

Putting together a project using the AI help will be a very close mimicry of what real work will be like and if the teacher is good they will learn way more than being able to spout information from memory.

Re: Trying to teach in the age of the AI homework machine

#512

Post by ecb_penguin »

BeFlatXIII wrote: post #505
thatfrenchguy wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Many of them are neurodivergent who do miserably in exam conditions I mean, for every neurodivergent person who does miserably in exam conditions you have one that does miserably in homework essays because of absence of clear time boundaries.

Autism vs. ADHD

There is nothing to suggest that it is autism or ADHD.

Re: Trying to teach in the age of the AI homework machine

#513

Post by ecb_penguin »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #145
Aeolun wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The important parts of life (like interviews) do.

> The important parts of life (like interviews) Interviews shouldn't be "exam conditions" either. See the ten thousand different articles that regularly show up here about why not to do the "invert a binary tree on a whiteboard" style of interview. There are much better ways to figure out people's skills. And much better things to be using in-person interview time on.

You're confusing the way things are with the way things ought to be.

The reality is life is full of time boxed challenges.

Re: Trying to teach in the age of the AI homework machine

#514

Post by ecb_penguin »

razakel wrote: post #335
baq wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

real life first, math second. taking tests is a skill that must be learned, especially now with AI faking quite literally everything that can be shown on a screen. (unless your students are learning purely for the joy of it and not for having a chance to get hired anywhere.)

>taking tests is a skill that must be learned "I had to suffer so you must too."

You understand the world actually has difficult problems, right? Like life and death challenges, without video game restarts. You don't get to pause things when it gets hard.

Yes, working under pressure is a skill that should be learned. It's best to learn it on a history exam when nobody is at risk.

Re: Trying to teach in the age of the AI homework machine

#515

Post by [deleted] »

aketchum wrote: post #375
aaplok wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Students don’t seem to mind this reversion. Those I ask are unanimously horrified that this is the choice they are given. They are devastated that the degree for which they are working hard is becoming worthless yet they all assert they don't want exams back. Many of them are neurodivergent who do miserably in exam conditions and in contrast excel in open tasks that allow them to explore, so my sample is biased but…

It is always interesting to me when people say they are "bad test takers". You mean you are bad at the part where we find out how much you know? Maybe you just don't know the material well enough. caveat emptor - I am not ND so maybe this is a real concern for some, but in my experience the people who said this did not know the material. And the accommodations for tests are abused by rich kids more than they are util…

[deleted]

Re: Trying to teach in the age of the AI homework machine

#516

Post by photochemsyn »

thresher wrote: post #322
sshine wrote: post #69

I teach computer science / programming, and I don't know what a good AI policy is. On the one hand, I use AI extensively for my own learning, and it's helping me a lot. On the other hand, it gets work done quickly and poorly. Students mistake mandatory assignments for something they have to overcome as effortlessly as possible. Once they're past this hurdle, they can mind their own business again. To them, AI is not…

I teach computer science / programming, and I know what a good AI policy is: No AI. (Dramatic. AI is fine for upper-division courses, maybe. Absolutely no use for it in introductory courses.) Our school converted a computer lab to a programming lab. Computers in the lab have editors/compilers/interpreters, and whitelist documentation, plus an internal server for grading and submission. No internet access otherwise. W…

Isn't auto-grading cheating by the instructors? Isn't part of their job providing their expert feedback by actually reading the code the students have generating and providing feedback and suggestions for improvement even at for exams? A good educational program treats exams as learning opportunities, not just evaluations.

So if the professors can cheat and they're happy about having to do less teaching work, thereby giving the students a lower-quality educational experience, why shouldn't the students just get an LLM to write code that passes the auto-grader's checks? Then everyone's happy - the administration is getting the tuition, the professors don't have to grade or give feedback individually, and the students can finish their assignments in half an hour instead of having to stay up all night. Win win win!

Re: Trying to teach in the age of the AI homework machine

#517

Post by eutropia »

aketchum wrote: post #375
aaplok wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Students don’t seem to mind this reversion. Those I ask are unanimously horrified that this is the choice they are given. They are devastated that the degree for which they are working hard is becoming worthless yet they all assert they don't want exams back. Many of them are neurodivergent who do miserably in exam conditions and in contrast excel in open tasks that allow them to explore, so my sample is biased but…

It is always interesting to me when people say they are "bad test takers". You mean you are bad at the part where we find out how much you know? Maybe you just don't know the material well enough. caveat emptor - I am not ND so maybe this is a real concern for some, but in my experience the people who said this did not know the material. And the accommodations for tests are abused by rich kids more than they are util…

datum: I'm ND, but I'm a good test-taker. There were plenty of tests for subjects where I didn't need to study because I was adept at reading the question and correctly assuming what the test-creator wanted answered, and using deduction to reduce possibilities down enough that I could be certain of an answer - or by using meta-knowledge of where the material from the recent lectures was to narrow things down, again, not because I knew the material all that well but because I could read the question. Effectively, I had a decent grasp of the "game" of test-taking, which is rather orthogonal to the actual knowledge of the class material.

Re: Trying to teach in the age of the AI homework machine

#518

Post by JoshTriplett »

ecb_penguin wrote: post #513
JoshTriplett wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The important parts of life (like interviews) Interviews shouldn't be "exam conditions" either. See the ten thousand different articles that regularly show up here about why not to do the "invert a binary tree on a whiteboard" style of interview. There are much better ways to figure out people's skills. And much better things to be using in-person interview time on.

You're confusing the way things are with the way things ought to be. The reality is life is full of time boxed challenges.

Other than a subset of interviews, what do you have in mind that has a structure similar to an exam? Because I'd agree with the comment at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44106325 .

Re: Trying to teach in the age of the AI homework machine

#519

Post by 542354234235 »

fastasucan wrote: post #331
Brybry wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instructors and professors are required to be subject matter experts but many are not required to have a teaching certification or education-related degree. So they know what students should be taught but I don't know that they necessarily know how any better than the administrators. I've always found it weird that you need teaching certification to teach basic concepts to kindergartners but not to teach calculus to…

>I've always found it weird that you need teaching certification to teach basic concepts to kindergartners but not to teach calculus to adults. There is a lot more on the plate when you are kindergarten teacher - as the kids needs a lot of supervision and teaching outside the "subject" matters, basic life skills, learning to socialize. Conversely, at a university the students should generally handle their life withou…

I was an instructor for a college credit eligible certification course. While I think that education degree is more than you need, providing effective and engaging instruction is a skill and is part of actual teaching at any level. Concepts like asking a few related open ended, no right answer questions at the beginning of a new topic to prime students’ thinking about that topic. Asking specific students “knowledge check” or “summarize/restate this topic” questions throughout keeps students from checking out. Alternating instruction with application type exercises help solidify concepts. Lesson plans/exercises/projects that build on each other and reincorporate previous topics. Consideration of how to assess students between testing and projects, for example a final vs a capstone project.

If you are just providing materials and testing, you aren’t actually teaching. Of course there are a ton of additional skills that go into childhood development, but just saying adults should figure it out and regurgitating material counts as “teaching” is BS.

Re: Trying to teach in the age of the AI homework machine

#520

Post by ecb_penguin »

doug_durham wrote: post #234
math_dandy wrote: post #28

I teach math at a large university (30,000 students) and have also gone “back to the earth”, to pen-and-paper, proctored and exams. Students don’t seem to mind this reversion. The administration, however, doesn’t like this trend. They want all evaluation to be remote-friendly, so that the same course with the same evaluations can be given to students learning in person or enrolled online. Online enrollment is a huge…

Hand written essays are inherently ableist. I would be at a massive disadvantage. I grew up during the 60's, but handwriting was alway slow and error prone for me. As soon as I could use a word processor I blossomed. It's probably not as bad for mathematical derivations. I still do those by hand since they are more like drawing than expression.

> Hand written essays are inherently ableist

Doing anything is inherently based on your ability to do it. Running is inherently ableist. Swimming is ableist. Typing is inherently ableist.

Pointing this out is just a thought terminating cliche. Ok, it's ableist. So?

> As soon as I could use a word processor I blossomed.

You understand this is inherently ableist to people that can't type?

> I still do those by hand since they are more like drawing than expression.

Way to do ableist math.

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