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Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

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Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also feel unhappy when painters get formal art training which summarizes millions of human hours of work. Even worse they then go to Florence and waste their time stealing art by painting..exact copies of other people’s paintings! I feel a real artist would make their own tools: brushes, paint, canvas, and above all be truly creative by not unfairly using anything that’s gone before. If they did they aren’t creativ…

Spending thousands of hours honing a craft and along the way learning from those who came before you, is not the same as using these models. You're being overly reductive to try and force a similarity, but in the process you just come off as disingenuous.

No. You're gatekeeping what "craft" is.

Is craft making your own chisels for woodworking?

Perhaps there are craftsman who buy chisels made by others.

Okay. Then is craft only making furniture with dovetail joints by hand?

Well, I guess people use planers.

So, no it's not just hand made wood working that's craft.

Someone uses a CnC machine with a design they made to cut wood, then hand sands and polishes. Is that craft?

What if you learned it took them three or four times as many hours to learn the CnC machine and design as it did to hand plane a cedar log?

To be clear, I don't identify as an artist at all, but I do have a stake in this conversation -- which is that I'd like more young folks to be positive, pick up tools at their disposal and build good things with them. The future's coming, and it's going to be built out by people with open minds who are soaking up everything they can about whatever tools are available. It's a sort of brain rot to gatekeep technology advances out of creativity.

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also feel unhappy when painters get formal art training which summarizes millions of human hours of work. Even worse they then go to Florence and waste their time stealing art by painting..exact copies of other people’s paintings! I feel a real artist would make their own tools: brushes, paint, canvas, and above all be truly creative by not unfairly using anything that’s gone before. If they did they aren’t creativ…

You said you're an AI artist, but you've just dismissed all artists upon whose work you build your own art as thieves, so either you've admitted yourself a thief as well or you got some serious trouble with logic

Sorry, I think you missed the sarcasm in my original post. I am saying that gatekeeping what art is, and what theft is, typically ignores exactly how art is made, how artists are trained, and the history of tools impacting creative endeavors -- basically close to what you say here: there are logical and historical errors that invalidate these complaints in my mind.

p.s. def not an artist.

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#513
post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were smartphones before the iPhone. One could also describe the difference as "just a touchscreen".

The iPhone 1 featured "touch screen, GPS, camera, iPod, and internet access. Its software capabilities were a turning point for the smartphone industry" (random source: https://www.textline.com/blog/smartphone-history ). If you want to doubt that it was in fact a not a turning point you'd need to provide very strong arguments.

All of the things you mentioned were available in phones before the first iPhone (assuming by ipod you mean mp3 player). In fact from a software point of view it was lacking a bunch of functionality and software ecosystem some competitors had.

In my view the reason the iPhone felt so new was almost entirely the incredibly responsive capacitive touch screen with a finger ui, everything I'd used before it did resistive and preferred pen for detail. Pen actually is better for detail so in some ways it was that more than anything else that turned the device from a creation device to a consumption device which was whole new way of thinking about smart personal devices.

Of course it was also sold in a decent package too where Apple did deals that ensured it was available with good mobile internet plans which were also unusual at the time.

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I stated exactly what the enumeration of arguments that I know of are and which one is gatekeeping. (It's still the first one, devaluing or dismissing work out of hand if AI was involved, regardless of other merit.)

Good, it's a socially corrosive technology. Much like you might dismiss a quality product made with child labor.

Terrible analogy that trivializes child abuse.

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spending thousands of hours honing a craft and along the way learning from those who came before you, is not the same as using these models. You're being overly reductive to try and force a similarity, but in the process you just come off as disingenuous.

No. You're gatekeeping what "craft" is. Is craft making your own chisels for woodworking? Perhaps there are craftsman who buy chisels made by others. Okay. Then is craft only making furniture with dovetail joints by hand? Well, I guess people use planers. So, no it's not just hand made wood working that's craft. Someone uses a CnC machine with a design they made to cut wood, then hand sands and polishes. Is that craf…

>which is that I'd like more young folks to be positive, pick up tools at their disposal and build good things with them

People have had access to tools for creating for generations. In the modern era you can buy a pencil and a sketch pad for dollars. You can buy an instrument used for as little as a hundred dollars. Hell, schools teach art and music for free.

>The future's coming, and it's going to be built out by people with open minds who are soaking up everything they can about whatever tools are available.

Not all technology presents a net good for society. These technologies only exist on top the mountain of stolen artwork created by millions of artists, and this tech will continue to hamper the livelihoods of artists as long these companies are pushing them.

>It's a sort of brain rot to gatekeep technology advances out of creativity.

JFC. Don't talk to me about brain rot. The "art" and "creativity" you speak about here is just more finely grained consumption. Now instead of scrolling through a feed, you can ask Google to present your dopamine addicted brain exactly what you want to see in that moment.

In contrast, focusing on improving a craft acts as a sort of antidote to "brain rot" because you're engaging in multiple important things at once:

- critical thinking

- delayed gratification

- habit formation

- emotional exploration

- and more

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#516

Funny but also illustrative issue: in the owl/badger video, the owl should fly silently. This is an interesting non-trivial problem of generalization and world-knowledge etc., but also? There's something somewhat sad about that slipping through; it makes me think, *no one involve in the production of this video, its selection, it passing review... etc., seemed to realize that it is one of the characteristic things ab…

The silent flight of an owl (BBC):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WigEGNnuTE

Longer version:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3ZnrhPtER8

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling it now. Someone will use AI to make the "AI Killed the Video Star" video. Probably the same guy that made this[1] and other masterpieces. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EICWYazyqu4

I thought you were going to link "Video Killed The YTMND Star" - which gives me quite the dose of nostalgia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6D9arrHiLE

It’s true. YTMND nailed the TikTok / Vine format like 12 years ahead of its time. If only they’d “pivoted to mobile” and added more ease of use creation tools they may have stayed relevant.

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#518

This demo video of Veo 3 on reddit, featuring a variety of characters talking in different scenarios and accents, is one of the most incredible AI demos I have ever seen: https://www.reddit.com/r/ChatGPT/comments/1krmsns/wtf_ai_vid... Created by Ari Kuschnir

Looks like AI crossed a line. At the very least, one person can do long form documentaries from their basement using VEO 3. There is no need for camera shoots. Yikes.

This reminds me of Pixar's video of an animated lamp 40 years ago. I remember that within 5 years Toy Story came out and changed everything on how animated films were made. Looks to me like we are on our way to doing the same thing with realistic movies.

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#520
post #377

As an artist and designer (with admittedly limited AI experience), where I feel AI to be lacking is in its poverty of support for formal descriptors. Content descriptors such as 'dog wearing a hat' are a mostly solved problem. Support for simple formal descriptors such as basic color terms and background/foreground are ok, but things like 'global contrast' (as opposed to foreground background contrast), 'negative sha…

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