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I decided to pay off a school’s lunch debt

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Re: I decided to pay off a school’s lunch debt

#511
Paying off lunch debt as individuals is very double.

Of course it feels good cause you are helping people but at the same time you are helping the symptom not the cause.

Just to keep paying the debts is like to just keep plugging the dyke while new holes keep opening up. You need a new system. What that means in this case is government intervention!

2.8 million is NOTHING to the U.S. government, in 2023 the US defense had 1.9 trillion dollars unaccounted for. TRILLION. [1]

Some quick math gives: 2.8 million / 1.9 trillion * 100 = 0,00014736842 %

If the government gave a fuck or was forced to give a fuck this lunch debt bullshit would not be a thing.

1. https://coloradonewsline.com/2023/12/06/pentagon-cant-pass-a...

Re: I decided to pay off a school’s lunch debt

#512

As someone who experienced this first hand growing up. I consider how someone feels about free school lunch, a basic test of their humanity. If you think kids should go hungry or be embarrassed at school because of their parents finances… we can’t be friends, nor acquaintances. IMHO, you are subhuman at that point and not worth my time. My dad believed that because he paid taxes he shouldn’t have to pay the school to…

While I wholeheartedly agree that no child should ever go hungry and school lunches should be free (from a EU country, this isn’t even a thing here), if you call people subhuman, we can't be friends, nor acquaintances.

> ... and school lunches should be free (from a EU country, this isn’t even a thing here)

I'm from another EU country (the Netherlands). Primary schools do not provide any lunch or other food whatsoever, secondary schools might have a canteen selling some snacks or low quality fast food. But everyone is basically expected to bring their own or go out/home for lunch.

Re: I decided to pay off a school’s lunch debt

#513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stuff like this seems like such a dividing line to me. Like, in theory when people believe things that are morally wrong, I want to reach out to them with compassion and respect and try to gently persuade them to my side because we're all, in theory, on the same side. But if you don't want kids to be fed, I really am not sure we're actually on the same side any more and I really am not sure what to do with that.

I'll play devil's advocate, and you tell me the immorality of the position. Say you have no children. Is it an acceptable position to hold that 'those people who have children should also be the ones to look after them'? Shouldn't you have considered these sorts of expenses and being able to meet them, rather than expecting to receive handouts?

The relevanr polities already factor children in when computing taxes. All you need to do is adjust the amount.

Re: I decided to pay off a school’s lunch debt

#514
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> everyone votes on hot button issues like the economy, immigration, and trans athletes in sports Everyone votes emotionally on issues they don't even understand (e.g, there is ~1 trans athlete out of 10,000 NCAA athletes right now, so why the hell is it even a minor issue, let alone a national debate?).

Because there is only room for 1 gold medal. Only room for 1 silver medal. This is in Pool, which almost a best case scenario for women to beat men and yet, in the UK, its two former men gunning for gold and silver. https://www.newsweek.com/trans-sport-pool-women-harriet-hayn... If you truly believe transwomen are women, then its great. For anyone who doesn't share that arbitrary idea, it looks like women's sports is…

I'll go back to there is ONE out of TEN THOUSAND so why is this an issue trumping healthcare and the economy?

Re: I decided to pay off a school’s lunch debt

#515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look into the expression "perverse incentive". Maybe he doesn't want people so thoughtless they'd make children without being able to feed them to do so? Also, too many Americans blindly praising socialism without knowing its consequences in the deep end. It's not all rainbows and butterflies.

I find it such a weird take to call feeding children at school socialism with grave consequences but taxpayer funded mandatory education isn't.

1) Only a very few people are expected to be able (time and competency) to give a general education to their children, unlike feeding/housing.

2) Let's be real, it's not just socialism/charity, one of the major reasons for compulsory education is shaping malleable young minds (for good or bad, mind you).

Re: I decided to pay off a school’s lunch debt

#516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>People really think there are, but every time we look we find practically no freeloaders. I don't believe that is true. You didn't provide any support for your claim at all either. Let's just consider a single example: >In the past three decades, the number of Americans who are on disability has skyrocketed. The rise has come even as medical advances have allowed many more people to remain on the job, and new laws h…

> I'm in favor of free school lunches for kids. But I'm very annoyed with the strawmanning in this thread. For example, it seems like a strawman to say that people who are against free school lunches "want kids to go hungry". Maybe they just believe that parents should be responsible rather than the state. If parents are responsible then the children of the parents who can't or won't provide will go hungry. That is a…

When I was in school we paid for (very fairly priced) school meals while the poor students were subsidized. It was handled pretty discreetly as well, I don’t think any kid was shamed for it, plus kids have a million ways to find out who’s poor anyway if they’re into bullying. So pretending the solution is binary is ridiculous.

Hell, my college education from Stanford, including room and board and a very modest allowance, was entirely covered by a university fund, no strings attached, while the rich kids paid in full. If $65k a year can be selectively waived (from a very rich institution, yes I’m aware, but I’m talking about the model), no way you can’t do that for a small portion of school lunches.

Re: I decided to pay off a school’s lunch debt

#517
post #336

> “That’s stupid,” she said with 7-year-old clarity. “Why don’t they just let them eat?” We’ll spend the rest of that child’s life convincing them that the answer to that is complicated.

I think she'll learn the answer after she gets a job and needs to pay for food.

Yes, as an adult she will learn that it's extra stupid because as a child she had no means or autonomy to work for and pay for her own food.

I mean I've heard tell that children yearn for the mines but when it's the responsibility of adults to provide for the material needs of children any adult who actively participates in a system which seeks to deny a child those needs is at the top of my shitlist. There is no universe where I wouldn't just give food to a child who is hungry in my proximity.

Re: I decided to pay off a school’s lunch debt

#518
Something that cannot be ignored, but seems quite glossed over in this thread of 400 comments: elementary and middle school are typically the best and most important day-care service for working parents. Especially anyone who is blue-collar and does not choose their schedule, any single parent who cannot be home at all during the day, double-income parents who are likewise absent.

It is one thing for comparatively comfortable white-collar homemaker moms to lovingly pack a little lunch for all their kids the night before. It's another thing entirely for them to send their kids packing and rely on the school itself to provide that nutrition.

And personally I see this as a bit of a dilemma. Because parenting and homemaking skills are often honed by the practice of preparing lunches and providing for the children. If you, as a parent, are not accustomed to doing this, you're going to bond less with those children, you're going to rely on state assistance more, and your children are going to bond less with you, resulting in a more distant relationship than one forged through the common experience of acquiring, preparing, and consuming food.

So free school lunch assistance is, in some ways, mandatory for a culture of working parents, and certainly if we're going to keep children out of the industrialized workforce, we need to keep them in school and well-fed. But at some point, children become quite dependent on the state and they are going to look to the state to provide other needs, as well, if the parents are not stepping up to that. So will children grow into full-fledged contributors who pull their own weight, or will they simply exist to expand the welfare state?

Re: I decided to pay off a school’s lunch debt

#519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can do both, especially given the latter pays dividends. People moan about the US's domination on the world stage because it obviously benefits you, collectively, as a country, substantially. The US gets tremendously wealthy off the power and influence it buys with the way it acts on the world stage (as well as unparalleled safety and security). Which is why it grates and/or is mystifying when you complain about…

>You can do both, especially given the latter pays dividends. People moan about the US's domination on the world stage because it obviously benefits you, collectively, as a country, substantially. Foreigners are always insisting on this to me, but they're never able to come up with concrete examples that are very compelling. The US was doing absolutely fine prior to WW2, back when we didn't feel Europe was our proble…

> The US was doing absolutely fine prior to WW2, back when we didn't feel Europe was our problem. Our economy was going like gangbusters during that period in fact.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Depression

Re: I decided to pay off a school’s lunch debt

#520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The OP wouldn't have starved. There appears to have been food in the house the OP could have taken, but the OP didn't because he wanted his father to, in his words, "buy lunch food." You'll note that he says his family could afford food, but that he dad wouldn't pay for school lunch specifically because he thought the government should pay for it. The previous poster didn't want to bring the food that was in his home…

This argument has a dumb premise. Why would he resort to scrounging around for food, looking through lost and found, and eventually stealing from the grocery store if there was food available at home for him. Because there was all this amazing food at home that wasn't "lunch food" is your conclusion? Every conclusion that follows is only logical if you go with a completely nonsensical assumption. If OPs Dad was willi…

> Every conclusion that follows is only logical if you go with a completely nonsensical assumption.

He specifically said that his father had enough money, and the issue was specifically paying for school lunches. Unless they literally woke up in the morning and went out for every breakfast before school every single day, and came home and ate a restaurant every single night, and went out to dinner three times a day on the weekends for every meal, and his dad literally didn't even keep a scrap of food in the house for himself and the fridge was completely empty, then there was food in the house.

It should be obvious which of those assumptions is "completely nonsensical."

> If OPs Dad was willing to let his kid starve daily I wonder what his punishment would have been for eating his Dad's food.

He specifically says he stole his dad's cigarettes many times and resold them.

Are you trying to claim that he would have gotten in more trouble for eating food from the fridge than for stealing his dad's cigarettes and reselling them? You're correct that there are many nonsensical assumptions here, but you seem to have missed which ones those are.

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