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Cursor IDE support hallucinates lockout policy, causes user cancellations

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Re: Cursor IDE support hallucinates lockout policy, causes user cancellations

#511
post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> * Any AI responses used for email support are now clearly labeled as such. We use AI-assisted responses as the first filter for email support. Don't use AI. Actually care. Like, take a step back, and realise you should give a shit about support for a paid product. Don't get me wrong: AI is a very effective tool, *for doing things you don't care about*. I had to do a random docker compose change the the other day. I…

They’re like a team of 10 people with thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of users. “Actually care” is not a viable path to success here.

Why do tech companies get a hand-wavy pass for basic customer service just because they're really big now? In what way is tech special compared to literally anything else?

If you can't sustain a business, it shouldn't exist?

Re: Cursor IDE support hallucinates lockout policy, causes user cancellations

#512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.anthropic.com/research/tracing-thoughts-language... The section about hallucinations is deeply relevant. Namely, Claude sometimes provides a plausible but incorrect chain-of-thought reasoning when its “true” computational path isn’t available. The model genuinely believes it’s giving a correct reasoning chain, but the interpretability microscope reveals it is constructing symbolic arguments backward from…

> The model genuinely believes it’s giving a correct reasoning chain, but the interpretability microscope reveals it is constructing symbolic arguments backward from a conclusion. Sounds very human. It's quite common that we make a decision based on intuition, and the reasons we give are just post-hoc justification (for ourselves and others).

The other very human thing to do is invent disciplines of thought so that we don't just constantly spew bullshit all the time. For example you could have a discipline about "pursuit of facts" which means that before you say something you mentally check yourself and make sure it's actually factually correct. This is how large portions of the populace avoid walking around spewing made up facts and bullshit. In our rush to anthropomorphize ML systems we often forget that there are a lot of disciplines that humans are painstakingly taught from birth and those disciplines often give rise to behaviors that the ML-based system is incapable of like saying "I don't know the answer to that" or "I think that might be an unanswerable question."

Re: Cursor IDE support hallucinates lockout policy, causes user cancellations

#513
post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would accept mistakes and inconsistency from a human, especially one not very experienced or skilled. But I expect perfection and consistency from a machine. When I command my computer to do something, I expect it to do it correctly, the same way every time, to convert a particular input to an exact particular output, every time. I don't expect it to guess, or randomly insert garbage, or behave non-deterministicall…

This seems like a particularly limited view of what a machine is. Specifically expecting it to behave deterministically.

Would you welcome your car behaving in a nondeterministic fashion?

Re: Cursor IDE support hallucinates lockout policy, causes user cancellations

#514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The model genuinely believes it’s giving a correct reasoning chain, but the interpretability microscope reveals it is constructing symbolic arguments backward from a conclusion. Sounds very human. It's quite common that we make a decision based on intuition, and the reasons we give are just post-hoc justification (for ourselves and others).

Isn't the point of computers to have machines that improve on default human weaknesses, not just reproduce them at scale?

They've largely been complementary strengths, with less overlap. But human language is state-of-the-art, after hundreds of thousands of years of "development". It seems like reproducing SOTA (i.e. the current ongoing effort) is a good milestone for a computer algorithm as it gains language overlap with us.

Re: Cursor IDE support hallucinates lockout policy, causes user cancellations

#515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why would any self respecting software developer use this tripe? Because I can ship 2x to 5x more code with nearly the same quality. My employer isn't paying me to be a craftsman. They're paying me to ship things that make them money.

How do you define code quality in this case and what is your stack?

The definition of code quality is irrelevant to my argument as both human and AI written code are held to the same standard by the same measure (however arbitrary that measure is). 100 units of something vs 99 units of something is a 1 unit difference regardless of what the unit is.

By the time the AI is actually writing code, I've already had it do a robust architecture evaluation and review which it documents in a development plan. I review that development plan just like I'd review another engineers dev plan. It's pretty hard for it to write objectively bad code after that step.

Also, my day to day work is in an existing code base. Nearly every feature I build has existing patterns or reference code. LLMs do extremely well when you tell them "Build X feature. [some class] provides a similar implementation. Review that before starting." If I think something needs to be DRY'd up or refactored, I ask it to do that.

Re: Cursor IDE support hallucinates lockout policy, causes user cancellations

#516
post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Code that you can understand and fix later, is acceptable quality per my definition. Either way, LLMs are actually high up the quality spectrum as they generate a very consistent style of code for everyone. Which gives it uniformity, that is good when other developers have to read and troubleshoot code.

> Code that you can understand and fix later, is acceptable quality per my definition. This definition limits the number of problems you can solve this way. It basically means buildup of the technical debt - good enough for throwaway code, unacceptable for long term strategy (growth killer for scale-ups). >Either way, LLMs are actually high up the quality spectrum This is not what I saw, it’s certainly not great. But…

I'm curious were you in an existing code base or a greenfield project?

I've found LLMs tend to struggle getting a codebase from 0 to 1. They tend to swap between major approaches somewhat arbitrarily.

In an existing code base, it's very easy to ground them in examples and pattern matching.

Re: Cursor IDE support hallucinates lockout policy, causes user cancellations

#517

Tinfoil hat me says that it was a policy change that they are blaming on an "AI Support Agent" and hoping nobody pokes too much behind the curtain. Note that I have absolutely no knowledge or reason to believe this other than general distrust of companies.

Yeah it makes little sense to me that so many users would experience exactly the same "hallucination" from the same model. Unless it had been made deterministic but even then subtle changes in the wording would trigger different hallucinations, not an identical one.

What if the prompt to the “support assistant” postulates that 1) everything is a user error, 2) if it’s not, it’s a policy violation, 3) if it’s not, it may be our fuckup but we are allowed? This plus the question in the email leading to a particular answer.

Given that LLMs are trained on lots of stuff and not just the policy of this company, it’s not hard to imagine how it could conjure that the policy (plausibly) is “one session per user”, and blame them of violating it.

Re: Cursor IDE support hallucinates lockout policy, causes user cancellations

#518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.anthropic.com/research/tracing-thoughts-language... The section about hallucinations is deeply relevant. Namely, Claude sometimes provides a plausible but incorrect chain-of-thought reasoning when its “true” computational path isn’t available. The model genuinely believes it’s giving a correct reasoning chain, but the interpretability microscope reveals it is constructing symbolic arguments backward from…

> The model genuinely believes it’s giving a correct reasoning chain, but the interpretability microscope reveals it is constructing symbolic arguments backward from a conclusion. Sounds very human. It's quite common that we make a decision based on intuition, and the reasons we give are just post-hoc justification (for ourselves and others).

In a way, the main problem with LLMs isn't that they are wrong sometimes. We humans are used to that. We encounter people who are professionally wrong all the time. Politicians, con-men, scammers, even people who are just honestly wrong. We have evaluation metrics for those things. Those metrics are flawed because there are humans on the other end intelligently gaming those too, but generally speaking we're all at least trying.

LLMs don't fit those signals properly. They always sound like an intelligent person who knows what they are talking about, even when spewing absolute garbage. Even very intelligent people, even very intelligent people in the field of AI research are routinely bamboozled by the sheer swaggering confidence these models convey in their own results.

My personal opinion is that any AI researcher who was shocked by the paper lynguist mentioned ought to be ashamed of themselves and their credulity. That was all obvious to me; I couldn't have told you the exact mechanism the arithmetic was being performed (though what is was doing was well in the realm of what I would have expected from a linguistic AI trying to do math), but the fact that its chain of reasoning bore no particular resemblance to how it drew its conclusions was always obvious. A neural net has no introspection on itself. It doesn't have any idea "why" it is doing what it is doing. It can't. There's no mechanism for that to even exist. We humans are not directly introspecting our own neural nets, we're building models of our own behavior and then consulting the models, and anyone with any practice doing that should be well aware of how those models can still completely fail to predict reality!

Does that mean the chain of reasoning is "false"? How do we account for it improving performance on certain tasks then? No. It means that it is occurring at a higher level and a different level. It is quite like humans imputing reasons to their gut impulses. With training, combining gut impulses with careful reasoning is actually a very, very potent way to solve problems. The reasoning system needs training or it flies around like an unconstrained fire hose uncontrollably spraying everything around, but brought under control it is the most powerful system we know. But the models should always have been read as providing a rationalization rather than an explanation of something they couldn't possibly have been explaining. I'm also not convinced the models have that "training" either, nor is it obvious to me how to give it to them.

(You can't just prompt it into a human, it's going to be more complicated than just telling a model to "be carefully rational". Intensive and careful RHLF is a bare minimum, but finding humans who can get it right will itself be a challenge, and it's possible that what we're looking for simply doesn't exist in the bias-set of the LLM technology, which is my base case at this point.)

Re: Cursor IDE support hallucinates lockout policy, causes user cancellations

#519
post #426
post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even the iOS and macOS typing correction engine has been getting worse for me over the past few OS updates. I’m now typing this on iOS, and it’s really annoying how it injects completely unrelated words, replaces minor typos with completely irrelevant words. Same in Safari on macOS. The previous release felt better than now, but still worse than a couple years ago.

It’s not just you. iOS auto correct has gotten damn near malicious. E seen it insert entire words out of nowhere

Yeah it finishes my sentences and goes back and replaces entire words with other words that are not even in the same category of noun, then replaces pronouns and conjunctions to completely make up a new sentence for me in something I've already typed. I'm not stupid and I meant what I typed. If I didn't mean what I typed I would have typed something else. Which I didn't.

Re: Cursor IDE support hallucinates lockout policy, causes user cancellations

#520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot of shit that has become "best practice" over the last 15 years, and a lot more that was "best practice" but fell out of favor because reasons. All of it exists on a continuum of what is actually reasonable given the circumstances. Reviewing pull requests is one of those things that is reasonable af in theory, produces mediocre results in practice, and is frequently nothing more than bureaucratic overhea…

Code review is actually one of the few practices for which research does exist[0] which points in the direction of it being generally good at reducing defects. Additionally, in the example you share, where only one person knows the context of the change, code review is an excellent tool for knowledge sharing. [0]: https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/2597073.2597076 , for example

Oh I have no doubt it's an excellent tool for knowledge sharing. So are mailing lists (nobody reads email) and internal wikis (evergreen fist fight to get someone, anyone, to update). Despite best intentions knowledge sharing regimes are little more than well-intentioned pestering with irrelevant information that is absolutely purged from headspace during any number of daily/weekly/quarterly context switches. As I said, mediocre results.
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