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Interviewing a software engineer who prepared with AI

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Re: Interviewing a software engineer who prepared with AI

#511

Post by ImPostingOnHN »

gyesxnuibh wrote: post #509
ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Switching to a tech stack is not the same as switching to brain surgery. SW engineering is a critical component of both medicine and rocket science, and doing it wrong can kill people. Beyond that, you'd be harming others by taking the job from someone who put in the work to actually be qualified, and harming your future coworkers by deceiving them. > Recruiters or HR who check your resume never cared about what yo…

Not all jobs are created equal. I know the quality control for software written for Web is very very different than the software written for cloud. You're arguing that the standards for medical device firmware should be the same for Pinterest which is honestly just a waste of and effort. I can see both sides of this specific discussion but treating SW engineering generally as rocket science is lying to yourself ;)

I consider unjustly harming others to be bad, whether you're exploding a rocket or not. That's why I added this part:

> Beyond that, you'd be harming others by taking the job from someone who put in the work to actually be qualified, and harming your future coworkers by deceiving them.

Re: Interviewing a software engineer who prepared with AI

#512

Post by ImPostingOnHN »

gosub100 wrote: post #510
ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just don't be surprised when you're passed over because someone else lied harder, and be aware that, like them, you're harming honest applicants by lying. After all, it's the same game. That said, it's not surprising that humans are still okay with harming others to personally get ahead. A few thousand years doesn't cover a lot of evolution away from "fark you, I got mine" .

> it's not surprising that humans are still okay with harming others to personally get ahead. Recruiters are harming me by taking a cut of my salary and offering nothing of value other than screening some calls and adding my resume to a spam listing and robodialer. Do you think I care about harming them

I'm sorry you feel hurt or harmed by someone. I've felt that, too, and it really sucks. It's not a good feeling.

I avoid recruiters unless they can serve me well, too (increased salary, signing bonus, etc), instead preferring to applying directly to individual companies whose mission is interesting and whose culture matches mine.

That said, I don't think hurt is a valid justification for hurting someone else, like the innocent parties I mentioned (potential future coworkers, other job applicants). That perpetuates a chain of hurt. Break the chain.

Re: Interviewing a software engineer who prepared with AI

#513

Post by thruway516 »

roenxi wrote: post #289
tuvang wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First impressions do count but I think the above poster has a point, a suit can actually harm your chances in an environment where no one wears suits.

I'd want to see some actual hard evidence before I believed that. The usual way social cues work is they are devastatingly effective even if people claim they are not. Much like how most interviewers are honestly convinced that their approach is unbiased but in practice they tend to hire people who are like themselves. My expectation is that turning up in a suit would get better results. The effect is probably smalle…

I don't know where you live but for most tech jobs here even outside of sv its almost as bad as putting your photo on a resume. Even for very senior non-technical roles you're better off showing up in slacks and a blazer than the whole enchilada

Re: Interviewing a software engineer who prepared with AI

#514

Post by wijwp »

iamleppert wrote: post #476

It's really easy to catch these scammers. Ask for a non-trivial code or work sample, something they have written. Actually take the time to read through the code and understand at least a part of it. In an interview, ask them some questions about it. People who actually wrote the code or did the thing can talk at length about about what they did, the history behind it, trade offs, have colorful stories about it, etc.…

"Ask for a non-trivial code or work sample, something they have written."

I haven't written non-proprietary code in a decade.

Re: Interviewing a software engineer who prepared with AI

#515

Post by droopyEyelids »

iamleppert wrote: post #476

It's really easy to catch these scammers. Ask for a non-trivial code or work sample, something they have written. Actually take the time to read through the code and understand at least a part of it. In an interview, ask them some questions about it. People who actually wrote the code or did the thing can talk at length about about what they did, the history behind it, trade offs, have colorful stories about it, etc.…

Very easy but time-consuming

Re: Interviewing a software engineer who prepared with AI

#516

Post by ghaff »

anon_e-moose wrote: post #238
roguecoder wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lying isn't marketing. If you lie in marketing, people can sue you. It is one thing to frame your experiences in ways that are relevant to what the job is looking for: it is not only unethical to fabricate experiences, it is counter-productive. I will be checking references, and if their reports of the role you played on a project don't match yours I will not be hiring you. If you don't have references who can speak…

That's all fun and games until a single company puts the top 3 or 5 candidates pitted against each other to see who waits the longest without a rejection and takes the lowest offer... I heard this from friends, and despite being very comfortable where I am, I started interviewing cynically with no intention to take any job. I can confirm this is very much true and widespread. Hiring is at its worst ever. Whenever sup…

It’s not at its worst ever. But many tech folks are coming off a period when they could waltz off one job into another in a week. That is not the norm for professional jobs. After dot-bomb the norm was lots of people left the industry forever and would you like does with that was not uncommon for many.

Re: Interviewing a software engineer who prepared with AI

#517

Post by hnthrow90348765 »

a_t48 wrote: post #474

On the topic of interview prep - is it weird that I’ve never been able to bring myself to do it? I can’t be the only one, right? As best as I can tell it’s never really hurt me (okay, there was a Google interview I failed where grinding a few leetcodes might have helped…).

It's been typical for me to get hiring managers/interviewers who don't feel it's a good question format for the job (this might be a .NET/C# cultural thing though).

Since the day-to-day job rarely requires it, and I've gotten jobs without it, there's little incentive to change unless I want to.

Re: Interviewing a software engineer who prepared with AI

#518

Post by motorest »

fzeroracer wrote: post #463
motorest wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sitting in a conference room under pressure after potentially flying out possibly hundreds of miles doesn't test your soft skills in actual day to day work. I've known many excellent engineers that buckle under that conditional. You're complaining about the hypothetical effectiveness of concrete hiring practices. You are not rejecting the value and importance of soft skills. Also, the ability to work under pressure…

> Also, the ability to work under pressure is valuable skill. If you have a candidate that fails to perform when being in a room with someone else, I doubt you can argue that that's your hiring decision when other candidates are able to perform in similar circumstances. I'm curious, as a software engineer when was the last time you've seriously worked under pressure? Like, 'do this thing now or you're fired/the compa…

> I'm curious, as a software engineer when was the last time you've seriously worked under pressure?

Jetbrain's 2023 Developers’ Lifestyles survey states that around 29% of all developers work on weekends for work.

Having to work weekends is the last resort when working under pressure. Nearly 1/3 of all developers claim they are at that stage. No other profession has the concept of "crunch time".

https://www.jetbrains.com/lp/devecosystem-2023/lifestyle/

Re: Interviewing a software engineer who prepared with AI

#519

Post by tartoran »

baq wrote: post #270
tartoran wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - awkward and/or neurodivergent people are going to have to learn social skills again It's not like these are skills that they haven't learned, these are things that they have a hard time with. Expecting them to be 'normal' is like asking a person of medium stature to be taller. They could mask them but ultimately it's not who they are and expecting everyone to be the same is a fools errand.

It's not expectation of sameness, it's that they will be working with 'normal' people and need to meet some standard to not be a net negative for any team they're in.

I think there's a tacit expectation to fit into a mold and that mold is heavily skewed towards extroverted neurotypical traits.

Re: Interviewing a software engineer who prepared with AI

#520

Post by triyambakam »

zelphirkalt wrote: post #478
siva7 wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't take that advice seriously. Suit in tech would be awkward (even for most mgmt roles). Tech pioneered the concept that you don't need a suit to get the pay of a suit. You can be yourself.

Seeing someone wearing a suit for a dev interview would make me think one of the following: (1) This person really really needs the job. Probably is in a bad negotiation position, due to this urgent need. (2) Are you here to impress people with looks, or with your skills? (3) They take looks way more serious than they should, maybe not focussing enough on the technical side of things. (4) Hopefully this is not an "En…

Sad because I /like/ wearing a suit, even to the grocery store. I know I must look weird, but I feel more comfortable with and confident in myself.
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