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An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

theaiunderwriter.substack.com

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Re: An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

#511

Post by FeepingCreature »

photonthug wrote: post #268
r3trohack3r wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re setting court precedent that will apply equally to OpenAI as it does to the llama.cpp and stable diffusion models running on your own graphics card.

I don’t know about that, we seem to be so deeply into double standards for this stuff that we’ve forgotten they are double standards. If I aggressively scrape content from anywhere and everywhere ignoring robots.txt and any other terms and conditions, then I’ll probably be punished. Corporate crawlers that are feeding the beast just do this on a massive scale and laugh off all of the complaints, including those from…

Great, let's legislate corporate liability for excessive data use from crawlers. I'm fully there with you.

Re: An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

#512

Post by FeepingCreature »

codedokode wrote: post #261
r3trohack3r wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re setting court precedent that will apply equally to OpenAI as it does to the llama.cpp and stable diffusion models running on your own graphics card.

Can stable diffusion be created without using copyrighted content? Maybe we should have some exemption for non-commercial research but definitely not for commercial exploitation or generating copyrighted images using open-source models.

Can an artist be created without using copyrighted content? Raise a child without movies, books, songs or the internet, see how much they contribute to "popular culture".

Re: An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

#513

Post by infthi »

grotorea wrote: post #200
tshaddox wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Idk, a couple of the examples might be generic enough that you wouldn't expect a very specific movie character. But most of the prompts make it extremely clear which movie character you would expect to see, and I would argue that the chat bot is working as expected by providing that.

Even if I'm thinking of an Indiana Jones-like character doesn't mean I want literally Indiana Jones. If I wanted Indiana Jones I could just grab a scene from the movie.

if someone gets Indiana on the suspiciously detailed request the author provided and it appears they wanted something else, they can clarify that to the chat bot, e.g. by copying this your comment.

I have a strong suspicion that many human artists would behave in a way the chat bot did (unless they start asking clarifying questions. Which chatbots should learn to do as well)

Re: An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

#514

Post by noduerme »

FeepingCreature wrote: post #499
noduerme wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're conflating trademark with copyright. Regardless, it's not just copyright laws that are at issue here. This is reproducing human likenesses - like Harrison Ford's - and integrating them into new works. So if I want to make an ad for a soap company, and I get an AI to reproduce a likeness of Harrison Ford, does that mean I can use that likeness in my soap commercials without paying him? I can imagine any court a…

Human appearance does not have enough dimensions to make likeness a viable thing to protect; I don't see how you could do that without say banning Elvis impersonators. That said: > I'm looking forward to all of Hollywood joining the cause against the rampant abuse of IP by Silicon Valley. If you're framing the sides like that, it's pretty clear which I'm on. :)

Interesting you should bring that up:

https://www.calcalistech.com/ctechnews/article/1517ldjmv

Loads of lawsuits have been filed by celebrities and their estates over the unauthorized use of their likeness. And in fact, in 2022, Las Vegas banned Elvis impersonators from performing weddings after a threat from the Presley estate's licensing company:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10872855/Elvis-imag...

But there are also a couple key differences between putting on a costume and acting like Elvis, and using a picture of Elvis to sell soap.

One is that a personal artistic performance could be construed as pastiche or parody. But even more importantly, if there's a financial incentive involved in doing that performance, the financial incentive has to be aligned more with the parody than with drawing an association to the original. In other words, dressing up as Elvis as a joke or an act, or even to sing a song and get paid to perform a wedding is one thing if it's a prank, it's another thing if it's a profession, and yet another thing if it's a mass-marketing advertisement that intends for people to seriously believe that Elvis endorsed this soap.

Re: An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

#515

Post by exodust »

mcv wrote: post #79

That's a really blatant lack of creativity. Even if obviously all of those prompts would make anyone think of exactly those iconic characters (except possibly a different version of James Bond or Lara Croft), any human artist could easily produce a totally different character that still fits the prompt perfectly. This AI can't, because it really is just a theft machine. To be honest, I wouldn't mind if AI that just r…

The prompt is what's lacking creativity. The AI knows it, and produced the obvious popular result for a bland prompt. Want something more unique? Write better prompts.

Re: An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

#516

Post by FeepingCreature »

achierius wrote: post #337
xorcist wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what you observe is more like a natural blowback to the prevailing idea that this is somehow beyond critique because it will fundamentally change culture and civilization forever. There's a bit of irony here too. The intellectual discourse around intellectural property, a diverse and lively one from an academic standpoint, the whole free and open source software movements, software patents, the piracy movemen…

Let's be clear. You can be for free software, against copyright, etc., and STILL be in favor of these firms being punished for violating copyright as they have. Because frankly, we -- normal people -- have always known that we would be punished if we did anything close to this: so many people have been thrown in jail, even killed themselves, because they distributed some film or hosted some books. But now, when a big…

IMO the natural effect of this will be to massively devalue any individual cultural artifact, and that this will also achieve the benefit of defanging the big copyright holders. Is it the right way to go about it? No. Is it an insult to anyone who ever got nabbed for piracy? Sure. But tbh as a pirate voter I'll still very much take it.

Re: An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

#517

Post by adrianmsmith »

planb wrote: post #493
noduerme wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're conflating trademark with copyright. Regardless, it's not just copyright laws that are at issue here. This is reproducing human likenesses - like Harrison Ford's - and integrating them into new works. So if I want to make an ad for a soap company, and I get an AI to reproduce a likeness of Harrison Ford, does that mean I can use that likeness in my soap commercials without paying him? I can imagine any court a…

> So if I want to make an ad for a soap company, and I get an AI to reproduce a likeness of Harrison Ford, does that mean I can use that likeness in my soap commercials without paying him? No, you can't! But it shouldn't be the tool that prohibits this. You are not allowed to use existing images of Harrison Ford for your commercial and you also will be sued into oblivion by Disney if you paint a picture of Mickey Mou…

> you also will be sued into oblivion by Disney if you paint a picture of Mickey Mouse advertising your soap, so why should it be any different if an AI painted this for you?

If the AI prompt was "produce a picture of Micky Mouse", I'd agree with you.

The creators of AI claim their product produces computer-generated images, i.e. generated/created by the computer. Instead it's producing a picture of a real actual person.

If I contract an artist to produce a picture of a person from their imagination, i.e. not a real person, and they produce a picture of Harrison Ford, then yeah I'd say that's on the artist.

Re: An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

#518

Post by ghaff »

djoldman wrote: post #332

I don't condone or endorse breaking any laws. That said, trademark laws like life of the author + 95 years are absolutely absurd. The ONLY reason to have any law prohibiting unlicensed copying of intangible property is to incentivize the creation of intangible property. The reasoning being that if you don't allow people to exclude 3rd party copying, then the primary party will assumedly not receive compensation for t…

You’re thinking of copyright law, not trademark law. Which serves a different function. If you’re going to critique something it’s useful to get your facts right.

Re: An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

#519

Post by exodust »

system2 wrote: post #330

It is crazy. I tried the same prompts and got nearly identical images to the author. AI seems to be repeating itself with the same images without variations.

If you're handing out red cards for repetition, aren't you guilty of the same infringement? You repeated the exact same prompt, which is itself an obvious bait for AI to draw the pop-culture lookalike.

I'm surprised by the comments here. When your prompt is so mind-numbingly simple, an obvious "dare" for AI to be a naughty little copyright infringer, can you blame it for dishing up the "big mac" you asked for while sitting in a fancy restaurant?

Don't want Indiana Jones? Don't ask for Indiana Jones!

Re: An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

#520

Post by dash2 »

darkwater wrote: post #504
fluidcruft wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But... the prompt neither forbade Indiana Jones nor did it describe something that excluded Indiana Jones. If we were playing Charades, just about anyone would have guessed you were describing Indiana Jones. If you gave a street artist the same prompt, you'd probably get something similar unless you specified something like "... but something different than Indiana Jones".

The nice thing about humans is that not every single human being read almost every content present on the Internet. So yeah, a certain group of people would draw or think of Indiana Jones with that prompt, but not everyone. Maybe we will have different models with different trainings/settings that permits this kind of freedom, although I doubt it will be the commercial ones.

I mean, did anyone here read the prompt and not think “Indiana Jones”?
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