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U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

wsj.com

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Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#511

Post by libertine »

kelipso wrote: post #296
spiderfarmer wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They just want the US to keep their word on promises already made. Is that so unreasonable? They gave up their nukes for it.

The nukes were never under Ukraine control or possession. It's like saying Turkey has nukes, they don't, they are US nukes.

Here comes the Russian propaganda... The nukes belonged to Ukraine. Just like Belarus nukes belonged to them.

What is said by Russian propagandists is that Ukraine didn't have the launch codes - like it was some magical barrier that would prevent Ukraine from deploying the nukes if they wanted to.

Like Ukrainian scientists didn't play a major a role in USSR nuclear development, and didn't have the know how to just use other system to deploy the nukes.

It's part of the Russian propaganda to make Ukrainians into incompetent inferior ethnic group - why do you think they address them by derogatory ethnic slurs like "little Russians"?

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#512

Post by ceejayoz »

rayiner wrote: post #250
croes wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump cited Russian propaganda of Zelensky‘s 4% approval rate. So where did he get that from?

You think random factoids are driving Trump’s viewpoint? Trump overthrew the Bush dynasty by eviscerating Jeb over the Iraq War: https://youtu.be/H4ThZcq1oJQ?si=Y3nWQeiui8KJhj8b . Now, neocons want to chalk that up as bad execution of an otherwise sound ideology. But you don’t think that Trump’s supporters could genuinely disagree with that assessment—think that the underlying problem is that america is too willing t…

> You think random factoids are driving Trump’s viewpoint?

Very much so.

https://www.businessinsider.com/gary-cohn-stole-documents-of...

> According to the Washington Examiner, McMaster said on Tuesday that Gary Cohn, Trump's former top economic adviser, did steal documents off the president's desk to prevent Trump from pulling the US out of key trade deals.

> Cohn told colleagues at the time that the theft was necessary and that Trump would forget about the idea, according to the book, released earlier this month. Woodward reported that Cohn also snatched a document that would have pulled the US out of the North American Free Trade Agreement from the president's desk.

He has a long history of parroting the last thing someone said to him.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2017/04/14/want-chan...

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#513

Post by [deleted] »

fhat151ag wrote: post #387
croes wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump cited Russian propaganda of Zelensky‘s 4% approval rate. So where did he get that from?

He knows it's wrong. He wanted to elicit a counter statement from Zelensky. Which Zelensky gave, saying that he had 57% approval rating. So now Trump can say: Look, if you have 57% approval rating, why do you shun elections?

[deleted]

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#514

Post by halper »

iammjm wrote: post #325

"Free world" my ass. As a European, the US has always been my favorite country and I've been basically universally pro-US all my life. The Recent US decisions managed to turn it 180 degrees for me, in a matter of basically a couple of months. As I consider myself to be a more or less statistical normie, I assume theres many, many more people like me. So: fuck US & eat shit, go suck Putins dick while the EU & the rest…

With all due respect to your experience and with sincerity, I must ask: did you miss Trump's first presidency? Surely that was the time to become disillusioned with the USA, if not before?

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#515

Post by anonfordays »

throw919232156 wrote: post #501
anonfordays wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There is a good reason why the USA was called "world policeman". And Europeans and leftist shit talked the US for it for decades. They called for the US to close military bases around the world, shit talked the amount the US spends on defense, etc. Now that the US is packing up and going home, the same people are screaming for the US to stay and continue being the exact thing they shit talked the US for. What a spec…

The US provoked the war, the US can finish the war. It is that simple. Don't dump your wars and middle eastern refugees on the EU. What if the EU started a war in Mexico, drove 40 million refugees to the US, then left and let the US clean up the mess?

[flagged]

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#516

Post by _DeadFred_ »

anonfordays wrote: post #441
hulitu wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is absolutely no requirement that the US has to get involved in every regional conflict in the world It is not a requirement, it's the implementation. There is a good reason why the USA was called "world policeman".

>There is a good reason why the USA was called "world policeman". And Europeans and leftist shit talked the US for it for decades. They called for the US to close military bases around the world, shit talked the amount the US spends on defense, etc. Now that the US is packing up and going home, the same people are screaming for the US to stay and continue being the exact thing they shit talked the US for. What a spec…

Heck yeah bro, we're owning the Europeans! What a win for the USA! Love basing our geopolitical policy, and breaking our honor in keeping commitments on that. So much winning.

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#517

Post by belter »

bradhe wrote: post #112
DidYaWipe wrote: post #88

The USA stands in miserable disgrace.

Amazing to see Russia win the Cold War—one we didn’t even know we were in. Their propaganda network is so strong that it took 3 weeks to go from “Russia is the enemy” to “eh, we have other problems” amongst the folks who…subscribe accordingly. Absolute masterclass in projecting power in the digital age.

“We will take America without firing a shot. We do not have to invade the U.S. We will destroy you from within”

     - Nikita Khrushchev

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#518

Post by _DeadFred_ »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #421
herculity275 wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really sucks that "Saddam has WMDs" broke an entire generation of Americans into knee-jerk contrarianism regarding any global conflict US is involved in. What's the "WMD" equivalent here - what do you think the media is lying to you about? That there's an ongoing Russian invasion of Ukraine is something all involved parties acknowledge.

I think the "wmd equivalent" is the idea that Russia will move on Berlin if they're not contained in Ukraine. I think the idea that the Budapest memorandum is a US security guarantee here's another comparable lie.

Unlike the wmd lie which was generated completely by the USA, all of Europe seems pretty concerned to the point they just approved another 650 billion in debt TODAY, something Europe REFUSED to do for what 40 years?

Because X happened in the past does not mean that Y is X. Only people reaching hard to push an agenda would claim any similarity.

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#519

Post by llamaimperative »

rayiner wrote: post #267
acjacobson wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it increases the risk - it's the whole point of the ask.

Why is nobody being open about that? Because I suspect the appetite for that is low. Germany is about closer to Russia than we are—how many Germans are willing to go die in Ukraine?

Nobody being open about how deterrence works? Probably because no one thought it needed to be explained.

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#520

Post by _DeadFred_ »

gpsx wrote: post #475
bwb wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are already drafting an end to sanctions, which is unbelievable.

Trump said he wanted peace, but I think he really wanted an end for the sanctions, probably to help with his goal of lowering the price of oil. I don’t think he cares at all about how things turn out in Ukraine.

Trump met with the Russia in Saudi for 'peace talks'. I doubt lowering oil prices was the concern there.
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