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"Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

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Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#511

Post by NickC25 »

colechristensen wrote: post #380
Zamaamiro wrote: post #258

This EO, combined with his proclamation that "He who saves the country does not violate any law" paint a very concerning picture. This has, historically speaking, been the language of tyrants. No President is above the law, nor does the President "interpret" the law; that is the domain of the Judiciary. “Wherever law ends, tyranny begins”

>paint a very concerning picture Donald Trump is trying to be dictator. He has been doing all but wearing a sign around his neck saying so for a long time. Please don't act surprised. It is not the time for quotes or being shocked at his actions.

He's literally said he wants to be a dictator.

He's saluted Kim Jong-Un's generals. He's bent the knee to Vladimir Putain He's whined that it's not fair that he doesn't have the powers that Xi Jinping does.

Growing up in the 90s and early 2000s, it was widely known that Donald Trump was a fraud and a complete clown. It will be studied for decades how many people just willingly gave up their ability to call a spade a spade and ignore reality when it comes to Donald Trump. How did people become so fucking stupid?

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#512

Post by watwut »

hypeatei wrote: post #358
jmyeet wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just remember, none of this was a surprise. It was advertised ie Project 2025. It is the culmination of the 50+ year Republican Project. And yet we had no opposition to it. The Biden administration and Kamala Harris were more interested in defending and providing material support for war crimes than stopping any of this. The Democratic Party is more comfortable with Trump as a dictator than an actual progressive gett…

I think it was definitely bad that Joe held on so long before letting Kamala run but incumbents lost globally[0], not just here in the US. People aren't happy with the effects COVID had, which is valid, but misplaced the blame which is how we got here. [0]: https://apnews.com/article/global-elections-2024-incumbents-...

It is not just a case of people misplacing the blame. There was massive amount of lying and demonization of anyone not conservative right going on. There was a lot of fearmongering and hate ... all enabled by "moderates".

The movements like these did not just happened because people were unhappy. They are result of long political project that was enabled, excused and defended for years.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#513

Post by tfigueroa »

imglorp wrote: post #430
bagels wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Republican Senators want this. It's not about statistics. They believe in this stupid Unitary Executive thing (aka, we should have a King).

Disbanding of both the legislature and judiciary would be on any dictator's playbook from the last N centuries. I can't imagine either of those bodies would be ok with getting shuttered but it seems they are both pushing for it. Why?

Many would be adjacent to the new ruler. The startup shutters but the VP of Engineering is already starting something new with his old reports.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#514

Post by intended »

tptacek wrote: post #375
Zamaamiro wrote: post #258

This EO, combined with his proclamation that "He who saves the country does not violate any law" paint a very concerning picture. This has, historically speaking, been the language of tyrants. No President is above the law, nor does the President "interpret" the law; that is the domain of the Judiciary. “Wherever law ends, tyranny begins”

What is it that you think this EO says? The first Trump administration went all the way to the Supreme Court to establish that he could coerce ALJs. There are already extensive internal checks on FTC, SEC, and FCC --- places where to exercise independent power those agencies still need the cooperation of DOJ. There's a clear norms violation happening here, but I don't see the power grab everybody else is seeing. Thes…

The terrifying thin i learned recently is that norms are how laws work.

This i learned from a discussion between a magistrate and legal scholar.

This means that a norm violation, practically speaking, is a law violation. Which i guess is a crime. But that has to go to the courts to be judged.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#515

Post by codewench »

arunabha wrote: post #503

In general, people are going to interpret this EO with their own lens. Unsurprisingly, reasonable people may disagree on the merits of the EO as a whole. However this part of the EO is pretty concerning > 'The President and the Attorney General, subject to the President’s supervision and control, shall provide authoritative interpretations of law for the executive branch' and later > 'No employee of the executive bra…

> Nothing prevents the next president from having a radically different opinion.

Of course, this is only relevant if they are interested in having a 'next' president, something which it seems a segment of society is less than open to.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#516

Post by watwut »

woah wrote: post #450
jmyeet wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just remember, none of this was a surprise. It was advertised ie Project 2025. It is the culmination of the 50+ year Republican Project. And yet we had no opposition to it. The Biden administration and Kamala Harris were more interested in defending and providing material support for war crimes than stopping any of this. The Democratic Party is more comfortable with Trump as a dictator than an actual progressive gett…

No. Since 2016, leftist democrats have promised that if only the democratic party moves far left enough, they will unlock some kind of secret progressive majority. This has been repudiated at every turn, most resoundingly in the last presidential election. The demographics that the leftist democrats had appointed themselves the saviors of went over to Trump, along with the tech industry which had formerly been a huge…

Democratic party did not moved left, not even close to it. Stop blaming left who holds no power for what right does.

Democratic party systematically promotes centrists and measured politicians.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#517

Post by ModernMech »

twoodfin wrote: post #330
snowwrestler wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your question is whether the “independent” agencies are Constitutional, the answer is yes. Congress makes the laws and the laws can constrain the behavior of the President. If the law says the President cannot fire someone, or interfere in an agency’s work, then the President cannot. So who are such agencies accountable to? Congress. Just like the president is accountable to Congress.

This is just flatly incorrect. Humphrey's Executor (which may not be long for this world as precedent, anyway) lays out specific cases where "for cause" requirements on termination are Constitutional, but otherwise the President's power to dismiss subordinate officers of the executive branch is absolute.

  The Court distinguished between executive officers and quasi-legislative or quasi-judicial officers. The Court held that the latter may be removed only with procedures consistent with statutory conditions enacted by Congress, but the former serve at the pleasure of the President and may be removed at his discretion. The Court ruled that the Federal Trade Commission was a quasi-legislative body because it adjudicated cases and promulgated rules. Thus, the President could not fire a member solely for political reasons. Therefore, Humphrey's firing was improper.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humphrey%27s_Executor_v._Unite...

Sounds like what the parent was saying, so not flatly incorrect.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#518

Post by nielsbot »

NotYourLawyer wrote: post #463
Zamaamiro wrote: post #258

This EO, combined with his proclamation that "He who saves the country does not violate any law" paint a very concerning picture. This has, historically speaking, been the language of tyrants. No President is above the law, nor does the President "interpret" the law; that is the domain of the Judiciary. “Wherever law ends, tyranny begins”

> nor does the President "interpret" the law; that is the domain of the Judiciary Everyone tasked with enforcing a law must necessarily interpret its meaning. The judiciary gets the final say though.

Who will enforce following the law if the executive branch ignores the judicial?

In theory the military is sworn to defend the constitution, but if the DOD is headed by a Trump loyalist (it is), then what?

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#519

Post by myvoiceismypass »

woah wrote: post #450
jmyeet wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just remember, none of this was a surprise. It was advertised ie Project 2025. It is the culmination of the 50+ year Republican Project. And yet we had no opposition to it. The Biden administration and Kamala Harris were more interested in defending and providing material support for war crimes than stopping any of this. The Democratic Party is more comfortable with Trump as a dictator than an actual progressive gett…

No. Since 2016, leftist democrats have promised that if only the democratic party moves far left enough, they will unlock some kind of secret progressive majority. This has been repudiated at every turn, most resoundingly in the last presidential election. The demographics that the leftist democrats had appointed themselves the saviors of went over to Trump, along with the tech industry which had formerly been a huge…

Perhaps the winning formula of the Obama years was the absence of rampant social media use and the spread of propaganda / misinformation at the time. Not saying those things did not exist - but they did not have the ability to spread like wildfire compared to today.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#520

Post by arrosenberg »

woah wrote: post #450
jmyeet wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just remember, none of this was a surprise. It was advertised ie Project 2025. It is the culmination of the 50+ year Republican Project. And yet we had no opposition to it. The Biden administration and Kamala Harris were more interested in defending and providing material support for war crimes than stopping any of this. The Democratic Party is more comfortable with Trump as a dictator than an actual progressive gett…

No. Since 2016, leftist democrats have promised that if only the democratic party moves far left enough, they will unlock some kind of secret progressive majority. This has been repudiated at every turn, most resoundingly in the last presidential election. The demographics that the leftist democrats had appointed themselves the saviors of went over to Trump, along with the tech industry which had formerly been a huge…

Eh agree in part, disagree in part. In 2016 a bunch of people who would otherwise not be interested in politics were interested in two politicians - Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders. The Democratic party leadership made a concerted effort to drown Sanders' economic populism before it could succeed. That sent a message that it had no place in the party, killing their ability to grow the base, and giving MAGA (via the Bannon faction) control of economic populist messaging. Economic populists left the Democratic party, leaving them to rely on elites and cultural leftists to carry the party messaging, which resulted in what you described. And most of what you described only exists in a Fox News fever dream, but the Democrats opened the door right up for it to happen.
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