Earlier quoted context omitted.
> nice to see how progressive and creative El Salvador has been Alright so let's have a look at these progressive/creative approaches: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_El_Salvador (a) Mass arrests of anyone who merely had a gang tattoo, (b) Jailing of children, (c) Security cameras everywhere, (d) Inhumane treatment of prisoners. Trashing human rights is always effective but hardly creative nor progressive.
What would you say to the victims of these gangs?
El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender
511–520 of 930 posts
Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender
#512Do pro-bitcoin people still talk about goals of bitcoin being a currency that people use daily? I don't follow it closely, but that idea seems to have faded and now it's just an asset to buy and hold while it magically goes up forever.
Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender
#513Earlier quoted context omitted.
The trouble is, it needs to be more than that if it is to survive. Since inception, mining has mostly been subsidized by new bitcoin, which is capped by design (and about 95% distributed). Satoshi’s paper assumed that transaction costs would make up for the exponentially declining subsidy, but that hasn’t really happened since it never lived up to his “digital cash” vision.
I'm so curious what will happen as mining approaches the asymptote. When the mining rewards become more and more rare and if people aren't incentivizing the network with a lot of transactions, will transaction times just get slower and slower until it becomes a stranded asset?
Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender
#514Earlier quoted context omitted.
Here's one good use: I looked into leaving the US to become a citizen elsewhere. I have about $15MM in my retirement. I would have to pay a penalty on my taxes for early withdrawal, and be taxed when I renounce my citizenship. In theory I could cash everything out, buy a huge amount of BTC, move to another country (within a week, or quickly!!), and then cash it out in their currency. Of course, all sorts of alarm bel…
So your one good use is... tax evasion. Huh. It's not illegal to move money out of your investment accounts, it's just reported so that yes, you can have a tax liability. I too, would like tax-free investments and funds.
Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender
#515Earlier quoted context omitted.
So your one good use is... tax evasion. Huh. It's not illegal to move money out of your investment accounts, it's just reported so that yes, you can have a tax liability. I too, would like tax-free investments and funds.
One man tax evasion is another man escape from illegitimate capture.
Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender
#516Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you’re arguing that people would think harder about their purchases and frivolous spending would decline. I agree. And I think that’s a benefits If you’re asking if people would not use their deflating currency to buy lattes and sneakers, I disagree. People like sneakers and lattes more than money. They prove this everyday by buying them instead of s&p. There is an issue of the cost of a transaction - which nis ba…
More than money, yes. More than precious bitcoin? The argument simply is that exchange should be frictionless and deflationary currency will slow the velocity of money. I guess you agree this will lead to reduced prosperity and economic activity, though you call it frivolous purchases. Your comment about preferences doesn’t play into it; this is about mechanics of exchange, and a precious asset is an inefficient medi…
I’m advocating for stable currency. Not bitcoin.
> you agree this will lead to reduced prosperity
I agree that it will reduce the velocity of money and maybe “GDP”. But not prosperity, individuals being able to save wealth into the future is a better life outcome than more goods changing hands.
> and a precious asset is an inefficient medium for commerce
You are conflating liquidity with deflation. To be a currency it has to be liquid, we agree. We also agree btc is not as liquid as cash. But deflation or stability is orthogonal from liquidity.
> now you also have hodling, zero economic activity,
Already addressed. People want money to buy goods.
> my dollars don’t disappear.
The value isn’t lost in the exchange but it’s lost everyday due to inflation. And by “lost” I mean transferred to government projects.
> that money effectively does disappear from the economy.
No it merely is saved for a future consumption date. If we average consumption needs of participants in the economy there is no reason to expect a monotonic hoarding effect. That would mean consumers are not satisfying their desires for goods.
Here is one last framing. The economy is not money, it’s goods and services. Money is just a tool for claiming them. So what does an inflationary currency do to help the economy? Does it cause more people to get out of bed and create new goods and services? No. It just transfers claims to resources to someone else.
Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender
#517Earlier quoted context omitted.
It doesn't have to be "magic" that causes it to go up forever. People need a way to put large amounts of money in places that are difficult for governments to get to and /or easy to move across jurisdictional borders. Think: money launderers, people that are worried their corrupt government will seize their assets, people hiding money from someone they owe like a spouse in a divorce. These all seem to me to be reason…
Money laundering, tax evasion, and alimony avoidance. Yes there is a demand for those I suppose...
Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender
#518But for the common mortal, cryptocurrencies are not about replacing anything, it's a highly volatile speculative playground, digital gangsters who want to make a quick buck
Nobody cares about the ideology
Bitcon as legal tender? lol
Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender
#519Earlier quoted context omitted.
What are you talking about? Their Bitcoin holdings more than doubled in value.
Yeah, i really dislike bitcoin, but have to admit, it has been a very profitable investment for a lot of people (and still hasn't completely crashed like expected)... ... although as a form of currency (as opposed to an investment) for El Salvador, it looks like it's a failure
Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender
#520Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you need to go to the IMF for a loan of ~3% of your GDP to mitigate the risks associated with Bitcoin, well, that's a pretty good sign that adopting Bitcoin as legal tender was a pretty disastrous failure.
What are you talking about? Their Bitcoin holdings more than doubled in value.