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String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

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Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#511
post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW I don't think it's so much the minority of directly guilty parties, but the institutional circling of the wagons when someone is caught. This often seems to extend to literally the tippy top of whatever congregation it occurs in (including e.g. the Pope). But in any case, yeah: you don't have enough information from this type of stuff to make good judgments about individuals in any scenario.

Despite what news headlines love to say, I'm not sure "circling the wagons when someone is caught" has been accurate in the English-speaking world since the 1990s. Often it's more "please don't blame the people who had no knowledge and who had already made rules that would've prevented the situation if actually followed." By far the majority of pedophiles are lone operators within the organization. Two things that ar…

I encourage you to read up on George Pell. Circling wagons and protecting abusers definitely comes to mind.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You're beyond reason. Any critic of Trump is immediately "woke" and "virtue signaling". Don't you care when he threatens war with our allies? When he praises foreign fascists? When he pardoned all Jan 6 rioters, that he previously claimed were all antifa? When he is made above the law by an obviously partisan supreme court? When he passes budgetary laws without congress with no repercussions whatsoever? When he promi…

I was responding directly to something the person said, continuing their discussion:

> The maniacal blaming for every problem. The incessant injection of Trump and secondarily politics into every conversation and every facet of life. This…neo-activism is as caustic of a solution as the disease it attempts to inoculate.

The explanation for that is that Trump is selected to provoke that response precisely because those activists are themselves toxic people.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#513
post #196
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would describe everyone who follows a major religion as well.

Am I wrong? Read the quote again: "appears to behave normally in regular matters and is capable of independent living, does not match other DSM symptoms, but believes insane things". None of you think the major religions teach some insane things? Okay then.

Care to provide an example?

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#514

This whole rabbit hole of rationalism, less wrong, and ziz feels like a fever dream to me. Roaming trans veganist tatical death squads shooting border officers and stabbing 80 year olds with swords. This is the kind of thing where it is warranted that the feds gets every single wiretap, interception, and surveillance possible on everyone involved in the zizian movement.

Split the beliefs from the crime. A bunch of murderers were caught. Given they are dangerous killers, one killing a witness and one faking their death yeah they should get warrants.

> Split the beliefs from the crime.

Pretty hard to do that when the beliefs explicitly endorse murder. Ziz used to run a blog on which she made thinly veiled death threats, argued for a personal philosophy of hair-trigger escalation and massive retribution, raged at the rationalist community for not agreeing with her on that philosophy and on theories of transness, and considered most people on Earth to be irredeemably evil for eating meat.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Of what exactly? I haven't claimed any conspiracy, that's all stuff Trump bragged about on the news. Bringing up the "criminality of the Biden family" is a legitimately insane thing to do when defending Trump.

Any of these things:

- passing budgetary laws without congress

- has been made untouchable by the supreme court

- pardoned the violent Jan 6 rioters (despite claiming to be "pro-order")

- constantly scape-goats minorities

- colludes with foreign fascists

Im unaware of those happening and would like to see a source.

> Bringing up the "criminality of the Biden family" is a legitimately insane thing to do when defending Trump.

Most Americans preferred Trump to the previous regime, just look at the approval ratings. You’re using “insane” as a way to dismiss what most people believe without critically engaging — that they prefer Trump, for all his faults, to Biden and his influence pedaling and special treatment of his criminal son.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#517
post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> any evil one trans person does, is used to stain all trans people. recognize this tendency; don't let this become like blood libel. As a Christian, I can empathize. The wrongs and hypocrisies of so many are heaped on those who have no relation to the actions.

[flagged]

How does that work, precisely?

Or to be more direct, how do you work?

You choose to be a Christian and the idea that a God exists makes sense to you? It's not that the arguments for it are strong, you just choose to believe them.

Then atheism becomes fashionable and your old thoughts stop making sense to you? Not because of any new evidence, refutation or anything of the sort, but simply because you make a choice.

Are your politics the same?

Do you believe in the existence of truth? If you do, are your professed beliefs just a facade?

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A witticism that falls flat when it is pointed out that conservatives are the ones in favor of rule of law and universal constitutional law.

[flagged]

Trump is not a conservative… you are mistaking “conservative” for “republican.”

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that you need to be a Christian to empathise with anyone. The big geezer's (JC) teachings imply to me that keeping quiet about your faith and simply doing good (for a given value of good) is the Way. Declaring a religion might rile someone, before you have even engaged. I suggest that you simply proffer a hand. Empathise as best you can. Be careful. At best, with mentioning religion, you have declared y…

Keeping quiet about your faith is probably a wise and respectful way of navigating a multi-cultural, multi-religious society but I don’t think its particulally supported Bibically as most of the New Testamemt after the gospels is about spreading the faith. Jesus says not to pray loudly like the Pharisees which could be interpreted as not bragging about ones faith, but he also says “Whoever acknowledges me before men,…

The most genuinely good person I've known, my wife's very devout grandmother, who belonged to the United Church of Christ and whose husband was a preacher for a United Methodist Church, never once went out of her way to proselytize (in my presence at least.) That's not to say she wouldn't talk about God or her beliefs if it was somehow directly relevant to a conversation, but I never saw her trying to "spread the word" just to do so. She emphasized caring for others and the "love your neighbor as yourself," part. Her favorite scripture was the story of the Good Samaritan and that was what she requested to be read at her funeral. She didn't spend time talking about what Jesus wanted, or trying to convince you to believe, she set the example by living it.

The unfortunate part is, in my 38 years of existence, she is possibly the first "real" Christian I've known: Christian through her acts, not just her words. In the Parable of the Sheep and the Goats, Jesus bases judgment not on religious rituals or verbal professions of faith, but on acts of compassion towards others: feeding the hungry, giving drink to the thirsty, welcoming the stranger, clothing the unclothed, caring for the sick, and visiting the imprisoned. This seems to emphasize practical love and concern for the vulnerable as true evidence of discipleship, rather than one's ability to proselytize.

Isn't the most important part of the New Testament the Gospels and almost everything that comes after is more about institutional Christianity? Acts, describing the spread of Christianity after Jesus' ascension, with little new information about his teachings. Epistles focus primarily on doctrine, ethics, and church organization rather than Jesus' words and actions. Revelations...well I'll leave that to others to interpret.

If Christianity is built around Jesus, shouldn't his teachings and words be the focus rather than the institution of Christianity itself? I don't think there is anything wrong with proselytizing per se, it's obviously critical to ensuring the survival and expansion of any belief system and from an evolutionary standpoint, ideas that encourage their own reproduction tend to thrive. But it seems misguided to focus on spreading the faith rather than doing all the things Jesus says you should do.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A witticism that falls flat when it is pointed out that conservatives are the ones in favor of rule of law and universal constitutional law.

[flagged]

I mean it’s sort of a no true Scotsmen thing, but I’ll say it anyway: Trump is not a conservative.
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