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US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

reuters.com

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Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#511

Post by ethbr1 »

joe200 wrote: post #496
api wrote: post #482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is really naive. These algorithms can be and are tuned to manipulate the audience. That being said, it’s not fair to single out TikTok. They all do it. The only unique danger with TikTok is that it could be controlled by a foreign adversary, or at least could be more easily than the others.

The danger with TikTok is that some already used it to influence elections (recently in Romania) so it is proven to be working.

It's important to differentiate worries here.

Issue #1: The platform owner itself uses the platform algorithm(s) to manipulate public opinion

Issue #2: Third parties use the platform to manipulate public opinion (e.g. Romania)

#1 could be solved by algorithmic transparency.

#2 could be solved by more realtime transparency into content.

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#512

Post by paulryanrogers »

cess11 wrote: post #507
professor_v wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how do we ensure that Tiktok doesn't covertly alter the algorithm to subtly include propaganda tailored to China's geopolitical interests that are detrimental to the US? Or even just propaganda tailored to enhance internal strife to weaken the country?

Do you really think TikTok has more power in the US than the local oligarchs and warlords? Short-form video does more to "internal strife" than the lack of basic government services, widespread substance abuse and state violence?

Littering is against the law despite murders going unsolved ~50% of the time.

TikTok doesn't have to be the greatest threat of all time to be subject to regulation around its ownership or behavior. Other problems can be addressed too. It's not like the entire country can only do one thing at a time.

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#513

Post by pas »

nullifidian wrote: post #433
kelnos wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your argument is predicated on the idea that banning TikTok is censorship. It's not. No speech or information is being suppressed; any speech being made on TikTok can instead be made on other platforms. This isn't like China where the government bans any services they can't control, and directs the services that they can control to suppress any information they don't want people talking about.

Tiktok algorithms could be considered a form of editorial position(be it foreign government influenced one, or just the type of content they elevate / not remove), and in this sense it is similar to banning a newspaper(which would obviously be censorship) -- journalists could publish in other newspapers. Therefore banning TikTok absolutely is censorship. >This isn't like China where the government bans any services t…

This is a pretty short, but significant list.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_foreign_adversar...

It's censorship and also import controls and also turning off one propaganda faucet.

> On December 6, 2024, a panel of judges on the U.S. District of Columbia Circuit Court of Appeals unanimously rejected the company's claims about the constitutionality of the law and upheld it.

Let's see whether SCOTUS barks at it.

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#514

Post by greenie_beans »

71bw wrote: post #448
latentcall wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who’s the adversary? China? China is not my adversary even if the United States government thinks so. I believe many Americans would agree with that. To me it seems China made a superior app that the American youth wanted to use and the American social media apparatus was jealous so lobbied to have it banned.

[flagged]

i'm not on tiktok and have never seen a tiktok about this issue but i care about it. same with a lot of my friends who are not on tiktok. same with hn god paul graham.

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#515

Post by moralestapia »

tester756 wrote: post #387
brookst wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So… if China mistreats their citizens, reciprocity says we must mistreat ours? You don’t fight censorship with censorship. That doesn’t stand up to even the most cursory thought. You fight censorship with openness. As soon as you find yourself arguing that you have no choice but to engage in the same behaviors you claim to dislike, you have literally become the enemy.

Censorship... zzzZZZzz They're banning app/news delivery app managed by enemy government It is not like they're blocking internet, wikipedia they're banning stupid, memes/brainrot app

"I don't like this so I must prevent others from enjoying it"

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#516

Post by exabrial »

soramimo wrote: post #65
exabrial wrote: post #55

As grating as this is to freedom of expression, I’ve been annoyed enough times by ‘tok’ers doing crap like I dunno, licking ice cream buckets in supermarkets, I’m also looking forward to that going away for a few months till the next thing replaces it. Unfortunately, this is pretty bad precedent. While I love my country, these sorts of decisions are as federal level are pretty scary and I question whether the governm…

Counter point, how is letting the primary adversarial power (which happens to be an authoritarian regime) massively influence the political views of the future generation a good idea? It sounds to me like the federal government is doing its job here.

I totally understand that point too actually.

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#517

Post by moralestapia »

brookst wrote: post #172
mavelikara wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You don’t fight censorship with censorship. That doesn’t stand up to even the most cursory thought. You fight censorship with openness. Can you explain this better without the assumption that it is self-evident?

Sure. If censorship is wrong, then it is wrong. If censorship is just fine, the n it is just fine. It is the height of hypocrisy to engage in censorship in the name of stamping out censorship. It feels like a tautology because the opposing viewpoint is a very simple hypocrisy. If you don’t like something, don’t do it.

>If censorship is wrong, then it is wrong. If censorship is just fine, the n it is just fine.

This is it, and it's so laughably simple that anyone who doesn't get it should check CO levels in their home before arguing.

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#518

Post by gradus_ad »

flkenosad wrote: post #459

I really hate how people are arguing that it should be banned because of the content being inappropriate in one way or another when the content you see is based on how you interact with the app. We don't all see the same stuff. So yeah China may have more educational content but that's probably just becuase the people there are interested in that stuff. When I travel to the mountains, I get more outdoorsy/hiking vide…

China and the US are in a deepening cold war. Our political systems are fundamentally opposed so conflict is inevitable (given there is no higher authority to manage our relations). If you are looking for some specific justification for a ban, you're missing the forest for the trees.

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#519

Post by BLKNSLVR »

flkenosad wrote: post #459

I really hate how people are arguing that it should be banned because of the content being inappropriate in one way or another when the content you see is based on how you interact with the app. We don't all see the same stuff. So yeah China may have more educational content but that's probably just becuase the people there are interested in that stuff. When I travel to the mountains, I get more outdoorsy/hiking vide…

Yeah, is nothing to do with that, it's "reds under the beds"-level fear of China.

It was fine when it was US companies...

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#520

Post by ethbr1 »

maverwa wrote: post #478
libertine wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you aware of what happened in Romania with Tiktok? A candidate got funded by foreign agents, paid for influencers, and sprinkled with Russian bot accounts it was enough to make a pro-Russian candidate get 20% of votes when he was an unknown political figure.[0] The app allows this. You can try to distract everyone from an app that enables illegal foreign interference by hiding under the guise of "oh, this is just…

But is the issue really the app itself? Or that not a symptom of a larger problem, or even multiple problems, we face, seemingly now more than ever before? I don’t want to say „banning TikTok is wrong“, I honestly do not know. But I don’t think it it solves any of the underlying problems. It may make it harder to hit these vulnerable demographics directly in the short term, but it won’t solve media literacy, corrupti…

Taxing social media companies and using the tax proceeds to fund transparency initiatives would be interesting. E.g. grants to researchers and civil society labs

Make them pay to monitor the problem they potentially create.

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