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South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

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Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#511

Post by JumpCrisscross »

all2 wrote: post #487
cogman10 wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does legal matter if the guys holding the guns don't care about the law?

Suddenly the rationale of the 2nd Amendment in the US Constitution becomes clear.

> the rationale of the 2nd Amendment in the US Constitution becomes clear

About the one thing this situation does not need is armed randos taking matters into their own hands. Currently, Seoul is in a constitutional crisis. The President is required to lift martial law. He has not yet done so. If people on the streets started shooting at each other, he'd have legitimate reason to send in the military. Korea's lack of a 2nd Amendment is one of the things keeping this constitutional crisis from what would have been the stupidest civil war of the millenium.

Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#512

Post by pessimizer »

BurningFrog wrote: post #300
rob74 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed - When he wrote 1984 in 1948, Orwell just took his contemporary totalitarian regimes (mostly Nazi Germany and the USSR) and extrapolated them to world scale...

Orwell learned his cynicism the hard way as a volunteer soldier in the Spanish civil war 1936-37. He arrived as an idealistic anti fascist fighter. After experiencing Stalinism in person, he became the man we know. https://www.realinstitutoelcano.org/en/commentaries/how-spai...

> He arrived as an idealistic anti fascist fighter.

He arrived as a Stalinist into a government and population of anarchists.

Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#513

Post by nullhole »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #366
mitthrowaway2 wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One could argue that the invocation of the Emergencies Act in Canada (in response to protests against COVID safety measures) resembles martial law. It abridged more than just freedoms of movement or assembly, including freezing personal and corporate bank accounts without due process. This is the most equivalent measure that Canada has to martial law, given that the Emergencies Act replaced the War Measures Act.

> One could argue that the invocation of the Emergencies Act in Canada (in response to protests against COVID safety measures) resembles martial law I'd agree with this characterisation.

>> One could argue that the invocation of the Emergencies Act in Canada (in response to protests against COVID safety measures) resembles martial law

> I'd agree with this characterisation.

I consider it an occupation of the capital. If re-establishing public order by forcing lawbreakers to leave is martial law, then so be it. It needed to happen.

There have been successful long-running protests in Ottawa in the past, including encampments outside the national legislature, without any hard response. Sticking dozens or hundreds of trucks belching diesel fuels and blaring horns in the central part of the national capital for a month, and preventing police from keeping order, goes beyond any normal protest.

Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#514

Post by lfmunoz4 »

jmyeet wrote: post #392
always_imposter wrote: post #163

[flagged]

Because we've collectively been propagandised out of any sense of class consciousness. We don't have class solidarity with our fellow workers. Instead we see ourselves as Jeff Bezos-in-waiting, "temporarily embarrassed millionaires" [1]. We have been manipulated into hyper-individualism and division across pointless lines like race or gender identity as a means of preventing labor solidarity. Depending on which count…

Sounds like over philosophizing, could it just be that corruption (i.e, are Biden/Harris the most qualified people in the USA to run the country? If not that is a form of corruption.) is at an all time high, and inequality is growing. If you look at US elections you see the educated elite in NY and CA verses the rest of the country.

Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#515

Post by meiraleal »

fragmede wrote: post #434
HPsquared wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very ironic given the ruling party in SK is called "People Power".

more or less ironic than the official name of their northern neighbor, the Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea?

What about ism?

Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#516

Post by JumpCrisscross »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #507
cogman10 wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 2nd amendment was added because the founding fathers didn't want a federal military. Instead, they wanted every state to have its own militia [1]. The interpretation that it means every private citizen can own a gun is modern not historic. It wasn't until the 2008 DC V Heller case that the right to firearms was actually established. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federalist_No._29

Absolutely incorrect. The state militias consisted of private citizens with their own arms who would organize when needed, not standing state armies with government issued arms. Also, private gun ownership was the norm at the time. Heller draws it's decision from historical reality and originalist philosophy

> Heller draws it's decision from historical reality and originalist philosophy

Private gun ownership != the right to a private gun.

Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#517

Post by kube-system »

jajko wrote: post #497
kube-system wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. Laws that protect people from harm by others, intentionally or recklessly, protect the freedom of innocent people.

Good luck explaining this to folks who have simple mental model of their own freedoms and that's about it, not much room for empathy in us-vs-them mentality.

It's nothing new. People are generally selfish.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_tqQYmgMQg

Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#518

Post by dividedbyzero »

cogman10 wrote: post #495
all2 wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suddenly the rationale of the 2nd Amendment in the US Constitution becomes clear.

The 2nd amendment was added because the founding fathers didn't want a federal military. Instead, they wanted every state to have its own militia [1]. The interpretation that it means every private citizen can own a gun is modern not historic. It wasn't until the 2008 DC V Heller case that the right to firearms was actually established. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federalist_No._29

I suppose even if it was meant that way (as an insurance against military coups), it wouldn't be of much use in this day and age anyway.

Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#519

Post by falseprofit »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #442
s1artibartfast wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Despite the National Assembly's resolution to end martial law, the military stated that it would remain in effect until ended by the president >Martial law will remain until the president lifts martial law"...Armored vehicles also seen in the city center https://m.ytn.co.kr/news_view.php?s_mcd=0101&key=20241204013...

Which means that the president is ignoring the constitution. And so is the military. Very much not good...

I’m not sure the military is ignoring the constitution. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe they’re supposed to follow the president’s orders.
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